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**Jon Miller** · August 25, 2023, 11:01

I understand you.

We need a healthy conservative party. The Republicans aren't that right now, and haven't been that way for a while.

For the Republicans to change back, or for a new party to arise, they actually need to lose for a round. Not by a few meaningful votes and a lot of popular votes (2020), or to barely win when they should have had a blow out (2022), but to actually significantly lose (think 1984 or 1994 or even 2008 or 2010, although that is the election that I identify as being the one that Republicans started to be dominated by reactionaries instead of conservatives).

Right now, for Republicans to change, not only do people need to move on from Trump, but some of the people in office in Congress need to leave.

JM
(I think that 2020 was the last chance to move on without a huge loss. I don't even think it is certain that Republicans will move on, I think right now it is possible for wins without it, which would be devastating to our country. Note that I am currently a democrat and the last time I voted for a Republican for federal office was in 2008, I did vote for a non-Trump Republican for a minor state office in the Democratic strong hold of California in 2022.)

**Jon Miller** · August 25, 2023, 11:02

Also, 2008 type win for the democrats might not actually be enough to cause the Republicans to move on.

JM

**Berzerker** · August 25, 2023, 14:35

we have a Wall St party

**PLATO** · August 25, 2023, 15:20

Originally posted by Berzerker View Post

we have a Wall St party

Interestingly (something I didn't know) there are quite a few political parties active in the U.S. ("Wall St" party not on list)

List of political parties in the United States - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States

**Berzerker** · August 25, 2023, 22:02

check the donors' lists

**Broken_Erika** · August 25, 2023, 22:35

USA need an equivalent of the Canadian Rhinoceros Party or the UK Monster Raving Looney Party,

**Berzerker** · August 27, 2023, 20:24

https://youtu.be/NwWfnYuvluM

Marion County Register case, they show the old woman's son talking about what happened. The paper told the top cops they're being accused of favoritism so they raided the paper and the co-owner died the next day from a heart attack. Its more complicated, someone told the paper a local businesswoman applying for a liquor license had her drivers license suspended in 2008 for DUI and other driving infractions. So what? Anyway, the woman accused the paper of getting information about her illegally and apparently thats why the cops raided the paper.

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. So the liquor board learns the applicant had a DUI 15 years ago. Its always the cover up... Apparently the cops were letting her drive around w/o a license (not sure about that, where was the favoritism?) or looking the other way. But then they went and did this, killed the old woman with an illegal raid. The press is under attack in this country.

**Berzerker** · August 29, 2023, 15:30

https://youtu.be/kDuHuRnksMw

Glenn Greenwald on the GOP debate discussing how the audience is selected and seated to favor the establishment and donors and why they like Nikki Haley

most important issue of the day and she's indistinguishable from Brandon

**Berzerker** · August 29, 2023, 15:45

https://youtu.be/9RFMQEEmU8g

oh joy, the new variant of covid is more contagious for people who got covid or the vaccine. Dont know if people who had both are even more susceptible. Course the people who never got covid might have better natural immunity so they're not a good group for comparison.

**Berzerker** · August 29, 2023, 16:50

x.com

https://twitter.com/simonateba/status/1696585337982656687

a primer on Biden, Burisma and Shokin

**Jon Miller** · August 29, 2023, 17:20

That is just ridiculous.

They talk at the beginning as if there is a picture with all of the people together, but there isn't. There are some unsubstantiated claims, which have been made for a couple of years (but was not made at the time) and has remained unsubstantiated despite many investigations.

I think it is reasonable to have an investigation. But you and others are presenting this as if there is a smoke and fire and there is neither smoke nor fire, just a smell in the air.

JM

**Jon Miller** · August 29, 2023, 18:13

It's a reason to look for smoke and fire, or for an investigation, but the smoke (or BBQ) could be somewhere else entirely.

Also, with the Supreme Court's decision on McDonnell v. United States, the definition of fire is such that even if you can see the smoke there is probably no fire (and definitely most times that you can smell smoke there is no fire).

JM

**Ming** · August 29, 2023, 18:50

Originally posted by Berzerker View Post

https://twitter.com/simonateba/statu...85337982656687
Right wing propaganda on Biden, Burisma and Shokin

FIFY

Let us know when there is REAL proof that Joe was involved, and not simply Hunter just being pond scum.
And if you want to go after Hunter, go after Jared Kushner as well. It seems his Saudi business deals are just as shady.
And we won't talk about all of Trumps business deals with the Saudis, Russia and China. I wonder what they expected (and got) in return for all of their "investments" in Trump.

**Berzerker** · August 30, 2023, 16:22

Originally posted by Jon Miller View Post

That is just ridiculous.

They talk at the beginning as if there is a picture with all of the people together, but there isn't. There are some unsubstantiated claims, which have been made for a couple of years (but was not made at the time) and has remained unsubstantiated despite many investigations.

I think it is reasonable to have an investigation. But you and others are presenting this as if there is a smoke and fire and there is neither smoke nor fire, just a smell in the air.

JM

The author doesn't claim thats a photo of all 5 together, he's showing several photos of the main players. Biden bribed Ukraine to fire a prosecutor and Democrats impeached Trump for bribing Ukraine to investigate it. You know they're lying because they all came out with the same story in anticipation of people repelled by the stench in the air. Biden fired Shokin for not investigating Burisma. Yeah, Democrats actually said that.

**Ming** · August 30, 2023, 16:44

Originally posted by Berzerker View Post

The author doesn't claim thats a photo of all 5 together, he's showing several photos of the main players. Biden bribed Ukraine to fire a prosecutor and Democrats impeached Trump for bribing Ukraine to investigate it. You know they're lying because they all came out with the same story in anticipation of people repelled by the stench in the air. Biden fired Shokin for not investigating Burisma. Yeah, Democrats actually said that.

All another typical wild ass alt right theory.
When there is actual proof off all of this, I'm sure the Republicans will go full bore to impeach him... but surprisingly enough, they haven't yet. Gee I wonder why. Maybe because they don't have any real proof beyond opinions and theories yet?
If actual proof comes out that Joe was involved in all these things you claim, then maybe he will be convicted.

But while you looking for those "facts", you should also look at all of the shady deals made by Trump and his Family.
You know, the first modern president who refused to provide his tax returns, and never turned over control of his businesses while he was in office.

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