Politics Thread

[Berzerker]

So you are OK with Biden saying he would leave Five Eyes, or NATO, if the UK doesn't announce that it is investigating Trump for dealings with the Scotland Golf Resort? You think that is ethical and wouldn't motivate an impeachment?

JM

Was Trump being bribed by an oligarch to fire the nation's top prosecutor? I think what Trump did was self serving and hypocritical, but not impeachable or illegal. And not only did Ukraine interfere in our election with that bogus 'black ledger' nonsense and people making speeches condemning Trump, Senate Democrats wrote to Ukraine 'asking' them to investigate Trump over Russiagate. Oh yeah, before Trump wanted Zelensky to investigate Biden and Burisma - actual corruption - Senate Democrats were waving the Steele Dossier around as the basis for Mueller and Ukraine to investigate Trump over BS made up by the Clinton campaign.

[Berzerker]

You can see the problematic hypocrisy of Senate Democrats telling Ukraine to investigate Trump in 2017-18 and then voting to convict Trump for asking Ukraine to investigate Biden in 2019

[Ming]

Trump got sweet heart deals from China and Saudi Arabia and he is still making millions from the Saudi's.
And his Fascist​ government tried to stay in office after he lost. He was willing to suspend the Constitution​ in a lame attempt to avoid losing.

Most of the Republicans are trying to stay in office by attacking every type of minority possible.
Those are the real Nazi's. Listening to what Trump wants to do if he gets elected is like listening to Hitler's playbook.

[Jon Miller]

Beserker, if Trump the candidate asked Ukraine to investigate Biden... it would be very different than what happened. (Although to my knowledge, Biden the Candidate has not asked any foreign countries to investigate Trump).

What happened is that Trump the President asked Ukraine to investigate Biden, and said that if Ukraine didn't do so then Ukraine wouldn't receive the aid that the US Senate had voted to provide Ukraine (and Trump the President used US Government emissaries, and not just Trump the Candidate emissaries, to do this). In other words, Trump was using the power of the US government to cause an investigation (or just the announcement of an investigation, he knew that just hinting it would be enough for the unsophisticated) of his political foe.

This can not be acceptable and is grievous misconduct and should have been, and was, impeachment worthy.

JM

[Jon Miller]

But the Ukrainian govt didn't want to fire him, Biden threatened to withhold a billion. Show us the people who wanted him fired, when, and their proximity to Biden or Burisma. There are no Republicans here making threads to go after. The fascistic assault on our 1st Amendment was led by Democrats, they are not the lesser evil. Shokin was fired for investigating Burisma - he testified under oath that was the reason the leader gave him when he was fired. The CEO of Burisma is on record saying it cost him 10m, Joe spent our billion and got 10m. Do a little homework on these people who wanted Shokin fired. I know of several now who were getting money from Burisma... the Biden clan and The Atlantic Council. Wanna bet these other people smearing Shokin have financial ties to the USA and western oligarchs. Yeah, watching the 2 parties and their media has taught me about narratives and when I see the usual suspects all repeating the same line my spidey senses wake up.

I have posted this multiple times, the people were in Germany and other EU nations which are opposed to corruption.

There were also Republicans who wanted him fired.

I have posted multiple times the links to articles written in 2016 and before 2019.

JM

[Jon Miller]

The Billions were for Ukraine to resist Russia, which they obviously needed.

JM

[Berzerker]

Biden threatened to withhold a billion to fire the prosecutor investigating the business bribing Joe

[Berzerker]

the billions are for people to loot the US treasury

[Berzerker]

Trump got sweet heart deals from China and Saudi Arabia and he is still making millions from the Saudi's.
And his Fascist​ government tried to stay in office after he lost. He was willing to suspend the Constitution​ in a lame attempt to avoid losing.

Most of the Republicans are trying to stay in office by attacking every type of minority possible.
Those are the real Nazi's. Listening to what Trump wants to do if he gets elected is like listening to Hitler's playbook.

I dont know what all he got but it should be investigated (it wasn't?). I heard foreigners were staying in his hotels to curry favor, his son-in-law got a real estate deal with the Saudis and Ivanka was buying/selling merchandise from China. If he was a fascist he would have used (invented) Covid to take greater control, he was criticized for not doing enough. And fascists are in the habit of starting or provoking wars, like our other more recent presidents, Trump ended 2 wars and the world was actually kinda peaceful when Joementum took over. I agree his machinations were lame but they were a 'legal' attempt to delay the transfer of power in the hopes election fraud evidence would be found. The House/Senate did not take up his cause and thats why it failed. We're arming the real Nazis.

[Berzerker]

Beserker, if Trump the candidate asked Ukraine to investigate Biden... it would be very different than what happened. (Although to my knowledge, Biden the Candidate has not asked any foreign countries to investigate Trump).

What happened is that Trump the President asked Ukraine to investigate Biden, and said that if Ukraine didn't do so then Ukraine wouldn't receive the aid that the US Senate had voted to provide Ukraine (and Trump the President used US Government emissaries, and not just Trump the Candidate emissaries, to do this). In other words, Trump was using the power of the US government to cause an investigation (or just the announcement of an investigation, he knew that just hinting it would be enough for the unsophisticated) of his political foe.

This can not be acceptable and is grievous misconduct and should have been, and was, impeachment worthy.

JM

I dont know what Russia did in 2016 but I do know Ukraine interfered in the election for Hillary and they were scared after he won. Trump wanted Zelensky to investigate that interference and he wanted to know why Biden fired a prosecutor investigating Hunter's company. Biden was in on the Clinton campaign's effort to frame Trump as a traitor and he was in control of Ukraine, he should be investigated. Imagine if Russia was accused of election interference and Trump was running Russia. Guess who decided Russia interfered? Gahed gahed, I wait. The Clinton campaign. The people framing Trump as a traitor said Russia interfered.

Trump was bluffing, the proxy war is strongly bipartisan and Trump had actually escalated weapons with Javelins. Senate Democrats were bluffing too, they weren't giving up on bleeding Russia if Ukraine didn't help investigate Trump. Ukraine - under Joe Biden's control - tried to defeat Trump. The people wanting this war with Russia did not disappear when Trump won, Ukraine needed time to arm anyway. The President runs foreign policy, not the Senate. Biden was VP when he told Ukraine they had to fire the man investigating Burisma to get a billion. I think its okay to ask Ukrainians to investigate that if they want more $$$.

Obama was told before the 2016 election Hillary was framing Trump as a traitor and he told Comey to get a warrant to spy on Trump. Joe Biden was in control of Ukraine when they interfered in our election on behalf of Hillary. Democrats impeached Trump because he asked for an investigation.

[Berzerker]

I have posted this multiple times, the people were in Germany and other EU nations which are opposed to corruption.

There were also Republicans who wanted him fired.

I have posted multiple times the links to articles written in 2016 and before 2019.

JM

They're not opposed to corruption, the west was flooding the country with lawyers, guns and money... we were corrupting Ukraine. Burisma wanted Shokin fired, Burisma gave Bidens 10m, Joe gives Ukraine a billion to fire him. Do you think that should be investigated?

Are these links in this thread and did I fail to respond to them? Who called for the firing of Shokin and when and do they have any connections to Burisma or Biden? The opinions of Republicans are irrelevant to me, they're making money in Ukraine too.

[Ming]

Sorry Berz... The real Nazis are the Maga crowd and many of the Republicans.
They are playing to the Bigots and basing their campaigns on hate and discrimination against all minorities. All power to the White Folks (as long as they are straight and Christian), and screw the minorities.
They also tried to take power by illegal means, and if you have seen Trumps latest, he pretty much wants to become a dictator if elected, by increasing the power of the office.
That sounds like a bunch of REAL Nazis to me. Trump and the Maga crowd are just following HItler's Nazi playbook.

[Berzerker]

https://youtu.be/1SQYcRWzTeY

wow, the DoJ prosecutors tried to create a plea deal that would have freed Hunter from other charges but a deal that bypassed judicial approval. The judge asked the prosecutor if other plea deals were structured that way and he said no, this was just for Hunter apparently.

[Broken_Erika]

https://youtu.be/1SQYcRWzTeY

wow, the DoJ prosecutors tried to create a plea deal that would have freed Hunter from other charges but a deal that bypassed judicial approval. The judge asked the prosecutor if other plea deals were structured that way and he said no, this was just for Hunter apparently.

That's what usually happens with children of rich and/or powerful people.

[Ming]

And even more Maga Nazis are trying to ban even more books. We have a state that want's to prosecute librarians for books in the libraries, and we have a Houston school district that just closed all the school libraries and converted them to detention centers for students. It's starting to look even more like Nazi Germany, all thanks to the Republicans/Nazis.

[PLATO]

So glad you said "MAGA" Nazis and not "Republican" Nazis. There are those of us who still believe in traditional Republican fiscal ideas that don't want to have anything to do with "MagaNazis" (See how I made one word there! )

[Berzerker]

libraries were detention centers when I was in school 50 years ago

[Ming]

And you can whine all you want about Hunter... And I hope he goes down in flames... But Trump is getting special treatment as well. Anybody that has done what he has done would not be getting the preferential treatment he has. And this whole, let's not prosecute me until after the elections is total BS.

[Jon Miller]

Biden's actions in 2015-2016 were supported by the EU and our allies, because the prosecutor was corrupt. Who else was supporting Trump not providing the support to Ukraine in order to get Ukraine to announce an investigation into Joe Biden, other than maybe Russia?

JM

[Jon Miller]

Are these links in this thread and did I fail to respond to them? Who called for the firing of Shokin and when and do they have any connections to Burisma or Biden? The opinions of Republicans are irrelevant to me, they're making money in Ukraine too.

I believe you focused just on the Atlantic Counsel, and you dismissed the others (like the Republicans).

I just found one name for the EU diplomats, Jan Tombinski, but in most sources it is just unnamed EU diplomats (Germany is mentioned and others). I also had mentioned the IMF (with a name, Christine Lagarde), but you said that was just Biden... which isn't the level of control that the President can even pull for important national desires much less the Vice-President for small $10m bribes.

Your point of view on this is just madness. And you continue to go 'what about' and ignore the fundamental point of the wrongness of Trump threatening to withhold aid of the US government for personal purposes. Biden didn't do that. Top EU diplomats, Republicans, the IMF president, other groups all were calling for Shokin to be fired.

JM