Politics Thread

[-Jrabbit]

Are you seriously trying to make it sound like Trump had no way of addressing this in his 4 years in office? They put Hillary through the mill with multiple investigations, which she cooperated with, and neither the Senate nor DJT's DOJ brought charges. And frankly, I haven't seen one scintilla of proof that Obama was directly involved in the (alleged) Fisa issue. And you KNOW Trump would have dragged Obama through the mud if he had even half a chance.

Now, tell us again why all your issues seem to be with the one election that Trump actually won...

[Jon Miller]

Both Durham and Horowitz said they didn't find such evidence. Or even suggestion that such evidence existed and was being hidden from them.

JM

[Ming]

You presume far too much... the evidence already exists, Horowitz and Durham already found it

If the evidence you claim they have is strong enough, then it can go to a grand jury. If it isn't strong evidence and just opinions/interpretations, then it won't.

[Berzerker]

A former FBI official - Charles McGonigal - instrumental to the Trump-Russia collusion hoax/witch hunt will plead guilty to money laundering and conspiring with Russia

https://youtu.be/QHM_bJMpdtU

[Berzerker]

You presume far too much... the evidence already exists, Horowitz and Durham already found it

[Jon Miller]

The Supreme Court Justice has a ceremonial role in the impeachment process, but theoretically could have gotten involved at some point.

As noted, it doesn't really make sense with how we now elect VP (originally, the VP was opposed to the President, as the runner up, and not on the same team as the President), but the VP has a ceremonial role in the election process and theoretically could get involved at some point (as noted, if the House couldn't resolve the matter). Note that the VP having some role in the process has never happened, even in cases like Hayes election in 1877 where the Democrats conceded 20 contested electoral votes to Hayes in exchange for the end of Reconstruction.

The elections to be decided in the House was the election of Thomas Jefferson and John Quincy Adams. The election of Thomas Jefferson was from when the VP was the runner-up, so only the election of John Quincy Adams was after the 12th amendment where the VP was selected separately.

JM

[Berzerker]

Did Pence just say he could have turned the election over to the House but didn't because of "chaos"?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1688636885898231808

I dont think it was up to him, a House and Senate member from the state in question had to file a complaint and then the House would get involved. If they couldn't resolve the matter then the VP would weigh in. Sounds archaic, like before tickets became a pres and vp team. How could a VP decide to toss a state election results that could keep or remove the pres in front of the VP?

[self biased]

Trump's prosecuted for defrauding the govt, when will Hillary and Obama be prosecuted for sending fraudulent accusations to a Fisa court to spy on Trump?

presumably Obama and Clinton will face charges when there is enough evidence of a crime being committed to be brought before a grand jury, assuming such evidence exists.

Even if I buy into the assumption that Obama and Clinton actually did what you're alleging, they were apparently better at doing crime than Trump.

[Berzerker]

Trump's prosecuted for defrauding the govt, when will Hillary and Obama be prosecuted for sending fraudulent accusations to a Fisa court to spy on Trump?

[Ming]

Berz is just repeating the Maga mantra. He's welcome to his opinion, but it does fly in the face of reality and actual facts.

[PLATO]

The Ukrainians and Europeans in 2016-2018 said that Shokin was fired for not prosecuting corruption. The Democrats started saying that Shokin was fired for not prosecuting corruption, including investigating Burisma, in 2019 after associations against Joe Biden started surfacing.

When you have bunch of people repeating the same line, including at the time of the events, and people who have no interest in Joe Biden or covering up for Joe Biden (especially since at the time there was no accusation or expectation of an accusation... Joe seemed done with politics), then it is probably true.

JM

So...everybody wanted Shokin fired for NOT investigating corruption...and Berz is adamant that he was fired FOR investigating corruption.

So Berz's opinion versus the Ukrainians, Europeans, and half the Americans? Dang...that's a hard one

[Ming]

All while Trump is indicted again and again based on real evidence.

[Berzerker]

Burisma and Biden decided to fire Shokin, the Ukrainians fired him to get a billion from Joe. Who made the decision if they didn't? What Ukrainian or European told Joe to bribe Ukraine to fire him? Shokin testified under oath the leader told him he was fired by Joe for investigating Burisma (contrary to the Democrat's narrative, Shokin was not only investigating Burisma he had raided their assets in Jan '16). Now who called for Shokin's firing with no interest in Joe Biden? Biden was already on Burisma's payroll in '15 before other people chimed in to support Biden (and/or Burisma).

[Berzerker]

Then what did he say? He said people wanted more, not something. They were getting something, they wanted more. Isn't that logical?

[Jon Miller]

Burisma got the prosecutor fired, Democrats told us Shokin was fired for not investigating Burisma. His replacement settled the matter and the owner of Burisma returned from exile.

When you see a bunch of people all start repeating the same line - Shokin refused to investigate Burisma - then you are listening to a narrative, a lie. Odds are the opposite, he was fired for investigating Burisma.

The Ukrainians and Europeans in 2016-2018 said that Shokin was fired for not prosecuting corruption. The Democrats started saying that Shokin was fired for not prosecuting corruption, including investigating Burisma, in 2019 after associations against Joe Biden started surfacing.

When you have bunch of people repeating the same line, including at the time of the events, and people who have no interest in Joe Biden or covering up for Joe Biden (especially since at the time there was no accusation or expectation of an accusation... Joe seemed done with politics), then it is probably true.

JM