Roe is gone! :D

[Broken_Erika]

Had they passed legislation on abortion, the supreme court would have just overturned it.

[PLATO]

I don't know why you keep repeating this when Congress hasn't been able to pass a positive piece of legislation since the ACA. And you know perfectly well that they aren't going to be able to pass anything this term or next. The members of the Supreme court do not live in a vacuum and they are perfectly aware of the consequences of their rulings, and now their rulings are harming people. They have the responsibility and blame for every women that suffers or dies from this ruling.

I keep repeating this because it is the reality of the law that the country is based on. The Supreme Court is not charged with protecting anyone beyond what the Constitution details. If the Constitution has a flaw that allows people to be harmed, then it also provides a remedy for that issue. The remedy is NOT the courts changing what the Constitution says. It is not the fault of the SCOTUS that Congress can't pass squat. It is the fault of the people that elected them.

The sad truth is is that you have a narrow and unbendable view of government and don't give a damn about the people. The people are overwhelmingly in support of Roe but their votes don't matter because of the shortsighted way our illustrious founders wrote the constitution. Small states are overrepresented. State legislatures gerrymander their congressional districts to make them as least democratic as possible. It's way to difficult to amend the constition. ETc. Etc. Etc. But you want to blame the PEOPLE. The system was broken from the beginning.

The reality is is that the Supreme Court has the power on these issues. They deserve the blame. So stop spitting out your inane platitudes and ****ing wake up.

The "narrow and unbendable view" is based on the Constitution. You can't just throw it out when you don't like it. If you feel so strongly, then start a movement to have it amended. I will probably support you! If the people are overwhelmingly in support of abortion being a Constitutional right, then they have the power to make it so. If they are to lazy to act, then that is, once again, not the fault of SCOTUS.

Further, I fundamentally disagree with how you characterize the Constitution. Small states have the representation that they have due to it not being in anyone's interest for big states to dictate to all others. Under what you are saying is that 5 states should have the right to dictate to the other 45. There is a reason why we set up states in the first place and not just have one big country. It is okay for people in different states to want different things. Amending the Constitution is not difficult, it just requires that most areas of the country actually want the changes. WRT abortion, I would like to see an amendment, but without one, those "vast majority" of people have an even better chance of getting what they want as it is actually easier to talk with your state representative than your congressional representative. If the "Vast majority" want it, then they can make it happen pretty darn easily.

The reality is that the Supreme Court does NOT have the power here. They simply have the power to interpret what the Constitution says. Legal scholars from both sides have admitted that Roe was a very poorly written and reasoned decision. Just because it was one that many people did like does not mean it was the right decision. The Court has now rightly put that power back into the hands of the states...which interestingly are MUCH more responsive to the will of the people than the Congress is.

I get your emotion on this. In many ways i agree with it. Abortion, within a reasonable time frame, should be a woman's choice. No doubt about it in my mind. The fight to make it happen the right way may not be easy, but it is the way that our governing document requires. The people MUST act if this is what they truly want. It is time that people stop putting off their responsibility to run their country. Anything less is an abrogation of true democracy that I assume you support.

[PLATO]

I see you are choosing to continue to show your amazing ignorance of government and further displaying hysteria over something you are overwhelmingly demonstrating you really know nothing about. Sad, but not unexpected.

[EPW]

And I see that you're nothing but a pathetic troll...sad. Go keep voting Republican while still claiming you're pro-choice, thanks.

[PLATO]

Start with actually reading the Constitution and the federalist papers. Understand why it is important for people from Montana and Wyoming to be represented for the republic to work. Finally, I am pro choice, pro strong defense, pro fiscal conservatism, pro equal rights(and equal opportunity!). My stance does not align lock step with any political party. Currently I do favor more Republicans than Democrats but that is not a party thing. Once again you are demonstrating a myopic political view where everything needs to be compartmentalized in your personal belief system This is a sign of a closed mind. You should wake up and realize that we don't have a perfect system, but even more so that a perfect system cannot realistically exist. We do have a system that does a pretty good job of making sure that everyone has representation and not just the "Vast Majority". It does not always work as we wish. But...continue with your hysteria if you wish.

[PLATO]

Had they passed legislation on abortion, the supreme court would have just overturned it.

Based on what? First of all, you would have to look at the legislation and what it actually says before you can even begin to evaluate this.

[EPW]

Based on the fact that the justices are catholic or evangelical right wing nutjobs, like ben kenobi

[PLATO]

Each justice is eminently qualified as a constitutional scholar and all have been confirmed by the directly elected representatives of the people. I assume you would be more comfortable selecting them yourself, but then your democracy theory goes out the window.

[ZEE]

So stop spitting out your inane platitudes and ****ing wake up.

PLATO is using PLATitudes.

[PLATO]

Well...at least you didn't say PLATOtudes.

[ZEE]

"Your platitudes are proverbs of ashes, your defenses are defenses of clay" -- Job 13:12

[PLATO]

Easily applied to both sides of the argument. It is good for people to disagree. This is how we all learn.

[Berzerker]

The Supreme Court is not charged with protecting anyone beyond what the Constitution details.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. - 9th Amendment

[PLATO]

Exactly! While I am sure you don't see it, this makes my point brilliantly.

[Berzerker]

I dont... how?

[Jon Miller]

https://people.com/health/beauty-youtuber-texas-forced-to-carry-dead-fetus-for-2-weeks-after-miscarriage-due-to-ban-on-abortion/

JM

[N35t0r]

This is just further evidence that Congress needs to get off its duff and act. It is not the fault of the SCOTUS that they upheld the Constitution. It is the fault of the legislature not acting in their Constitutionally empowered way.

The constitution forbids life-saving medical procedures?

[PLATO]

https://people.com/health/beauty-you...n-on-abortion/

JM

This is another horrific example that will hopefully compel the people to force Congress to act. We, as a people MUST take action to codify the rights of women. I have already written my representatives (both state and federal) on this issue. I highly encourage everyone to do the same. It is only through the power of the people and EPW's "Vast Majority" that this problem will be solved.

[PLATO]

The constitution forbids life-saving medical procedures?

Ridiculous and argumentative with no value...no response

[EPW]

34-66 support overturning roe vs wade

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documen...n-politics.pdf

Page 9

Yes, a "vast majority" are in favor of roe vs wade. But a vote from Mississippi is worth 42% more than my vote, excluding other factors like gerrymandering and disenfranchisement, so it doesn't matter.

[PLATO]

34-66 support overturning roe vs wade

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documen...n-politics.pdf

Page 9

Yes, a "vast majority" are in favor of roe vs wade.

[Jon Miller]

While I am very concerned about the precedent of the lack of concern of precedent (and think that Roberts was correct in concern and approach), and I am also very concerned for those who are hurting or have been hurt or will be hurt (or even have died), I understand Plato's point that in some sense this is like society ripping a bandage off that has been on too long.

It hurts and there will be some additional blood loss. But, if we decide to do it and are allowed to, we will be able to actually treat the wound. Of course, if we rip it off but aren't ready/willing to treat it, we will end up in a worse state than we were.

I am concerned.

JM

[N35t0r]

While I am very concerned about the precedent of the lack of concern of precedent (and think that Roberts was correct in concern and approach), and I am also very concerned for those who are hurting or have been hurt or will be hurt (or even have died), I understand Plato's point that in some sense this is like society ripping a bandage off that has been on too long.

It hurts and there will be some additional blood loss. But, if we decide to do it and are allowed to, we will be able to actually treat the wound. Of course, if we rip it off but aren't ready/willing to treat it, we will end up in a worse state than we were.

I am concerned.

JM

Didn't the justices repeatedly say that Roe was established law and that it wouldn't be reviewed? There might have been a little more legislative push to get a law in place if they had announced with some anticipation that there was going to be a review.

Going back to your analogy, it might have been a good idea to go to the hospital, out at least make sure you have the equipment to treat the wound before ripping off the bandage.

But we all know that's not something the SC majority really cares about, because it's ridiculous that bodily autonomy can be understood as coming from a right to freedom, but corporations being people and money being speech are clearly right there in the constitution.

[Jon Miller]

Yep.

JM