Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[pchang]

He heard Berz is against spending tax money on war. So he decided to push as far as he can.

[Berzerker]

The US didn't decline. The pushback was all from Russia's neighbors already in NATO. The US *did* decline to pressure cajole or otherwise convince Russia's neighbors to committing to a speedy acceptance on Russia's special terms. If you recall, Russia insisted that its accession to NATO involve immediate accession of Russia without any of the official process setout in NATOs charter and structural agreements other than the immediate vote for membership. I certainly think the US should have run with it. The US could have threatened to leave if Russia were not accepted. That would probably have been enough to make it work. However the Bush and Obama administrations were both cowards and never pushed for NATO to make the request by Russia for special treatment in joining NATO work. That's not at all the same as "the US declined". The US likely, almost certainly in fact, would have voted yes but the vote would never even occur because massive opposition to Russia's demand for special treatment in joining by the newer members who all had to jump through the painful official hoops and by almost all of Russia's neighbors who frankly publicly didn't trust Russia at all. Russia never joining NATO was certainly a shame but the US was hardly the obstacle. Of course Putin is seldom surprised and it's quite possible he knew his demands would be rejected and his request was insincere but the US probably could have made him prove it.

The USA runs Nato

[Geronimo]

The USA runs Nato

Where was NATO when the US (prez Bush) launched its neocon crusade in Iraq 2003 Berz?

[pchang]

Also, France made us fly around their airspace when we bombed Libya back in 1986.

[BeBMan]

France even left NATO for a while, at least the military part. Aside from back and forth diplo-moaning nothing happened back then, except the NATO HQ moving from Paris to Brussels. When Hungary had the idea to leave the Warsaw Pact in 1956 otoh Soviet tanks moved in...

[Berzerker]

Its 2024 and Libya/Iraq weren't Nato operations

[Ming]

He was just repeating something he saw in an internet video.
He had nothing else to add to the previous post, so he just bailed with more internet nonsense

[BeBMan]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68056939

Some people have strange ideas

[Berzerker]

Where was NATO when the US (prez Bush) launched its neocon crusade in Iraq 2003 Berz?

Nato is ostensibly a defensive alliance, the main players in Nato nonetheless helped in that war. If you dont think the USA runs Nato, who does?

[Ming]

Geee... How about ALL the countries that are in the ALLIANCE.

[Berzerker]

Are they deciding which wars the US wages on behalf of Nato? Not every US war is a Nato operation or needs to be. If the USA vetoes a Nato war who will overrule the USA?

[pchang]

You have no idea how NATO works.

[Ming]

He has no clue... but he saw it in an internet video.

[Berzerker]

you have no idea how rebuttals work

[BeBMan]

Speaking of NATO

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68076829

Only Hungary left - which said it didn't want to be last, but that's exactly where they are now. Orban may squirm a bit still, but Sweden will be in.

[BeBMan]

Germany has uncovered a significant pro-Russia disinformation campaign using thousands of fake accounts on X to try to stir anger at Berlin’s support for Ukraine, a media report has said.

The revelations, first reported in Der Spiegel, come amid growing concern about the impact increasingly sophisticated disinformation campaigns could have on elections.

Experts commissioned by the German foreign ministry used specialised software to monitor posts on the online platform X, formerly known as Twitter, between 20 December and 20 January, Der Spiegel wrote.

They reportedly stumbled across more than 50,000 fake user accounts that together pumped out more than a million German-language tweets.

A common theme was the accusation that Olaf Scholz’s government was neglecting Germans in favour of helping Ukraine in its war against Russia, according to Spiegel, which said it had seen excerpts of the analysis.

The accounts also often linked to fake news stories on websites designed to resemble those of genuine media outlets, Spiegel said, leading analysts to connect it to the Russia-linked “doppelganger” campaign already known to authorities.

Nice try, folkZ.

snipsnapped from:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/26/germany-unearths-pro-russia-disinformation-campaign-on-x

[Berzerker]

did they find the Ukrainian soldier who blew up their pipeline?

[Berzerker]

oops, sorry... did they find the Russian soldiers who blew up their pipeline?

[BeBMan]

Whoever did it was 8 years too late, at least.

[Geronimo]

Should "X" be able to undermine such campaigns and bring them to light earlier than this?

[Berzerker]

The people spreading misinformation are upset by competition

[N35t0r]

Should "X" be able to undermine such campaigns and bring them to light earlier than this?

X seems too busy running off advertisers to bother with actual content moderation or control.

[Ming]

The people spreading misinformation are upset by competition

I guess the Trump supporters who continue to believe he actually won the election are upset that others tell lies as well.

[Geronimo]

I guess the Trump supporters who continue to believe he actually won the election are upset that others tell lies as well.

Most of them aren't liars. They just loyally and enthusiastically quaff the kool-ade. I'm not even sure Trump is primarily a liar in this regard, although being deluded enough to treat his wishful thinking as established fact makes him even less suited to the presidency than the usual pathological liar behavior patterns.

[Berzerker]

I think Trump sincerely believes the election was rigged right along with a big chunk of the GOP.

[BeBMan]

So basically the choice is that Trump is either a complete moron, or a nefarious liar (not excluding the possibility that he's both).

[-Jrabbit]

Berz, for Trump, "sincerely held belief" just means that which serves his ends.
For him, it has nothing to do with the facts of the matter.
The fact that people like you think that's somehow an excuse for anything he does or has done, is a big part of the problem.