Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Berzerker]

I didn't say you did, I'm characterizing the arguments I've heard for several years from Democrats. The irony is lost on them, Russia grabbed Ukrainian territory on their watch, not Putin's puppet. I dont know who Putin's people are, I do know the Donbas population has more in common with western Russians across the border than western Ukrainians and Banderites. People have memories of Nazis attacking Russians and apparently this continued long after wwii ended as the west and east faced off in a cold war.

So... I dont want to arm the Nazis. I do want the people of the Donbas to be free of Moscow and Kiev but Obama, Trump and Biden made that impossible. I can only hope now for this war to end asap with an agreement from Kiev and the west (for what its worth) to leave the Donbas alone. Only then can the world unite to pressure Moscow to grant the Donbas some level of autonomy. Yeah, I blame Obama and Biden for unleashing a Nazi army on the people of eastern Ukraine. That happened before Putin sent the cavalry in to protect those people.

[-Jrabbit]

cavalry / marauders
potayto / potahto

The free pass you keep giving Putin remains a mystery.

[Berzerker]

Kiev's Nazis started this war, Putin is irrelevant. But I'm sure they're fine people deserving of our weapons just like Obama's moderate rebels destroying Syria

[Ming]

That happened before Putin sent the cavalry in to protect those people.

Then why are FAR MORE of those PEOPLE DEAD NOW... In what universe do you protect people by killing and raping them, while destroying their towns and lives.
I guess you saw that on a video on Rumble.

[Geronimo]

We armed Nazis to kill Ukrainians to provoke a war with Russia and it worked, We armed Mujahideen to kill Afghans to provoke a war with the USSR and it worked. We armed ISIS to kill Syrians to topple Assad to hurt Russia and it didn't work so well, but Obama did flood Europe with Muslim refugees.

It's hard to take what you have to say seriously when you assert that "We armed ISIS to kill Syrians to topple Assad to hurt Russia and it didn't work so well" when absolutely nothing in that claim is corroborated by anything.

An email disseminating the new (at the time) information that ISIL was declaring a fatwa against Assad said "ISIL is on our side in Syria" and you claimed that meant there was real support for ISIL in Washington, even though everything in the email made clear that ISIL was understood to be an implacable enemy and the context was exclusively tied to noting a top level ISIL declaration of opposition to Assad. Berz, not only did the US never support ISIL, but from the moment ISIL/ISIS reared its ugly head they all planned publicly and behind the scenes on how they could eliminate it. Every discussion of funding for anybody in Syria fretted about whether the funds might inadvertently find their way into ISIL or more generally Al Qaeda's hands.

Even in Afghanistan the armed opposition to the DRA began in 1978 well before one red cent of Washington funding for anybody in Afghanistan. Of course the DRA was started in April 1978 by a soviet funded coup d'etat and US funding didn't begin until July 1979 followed in December 1979 by the massive Soviet Invasion. How is it that your belief that the removal of Viktor Yanukovych was a US funded "coup" leads you to place all responsibility for all subsequent armed conflict at the feet of the US while the April 1978 Afghanistan coup still allows you to place all responsibility for the Afganistan wars at the US' feet as well?

It's almost as if rather than being an impartial observer you might have an axe to grind.

[BeBMan]

Interesting discussion of journalists, politicians, Israel and Ukraine

Yeah, less attention is somewhat true -- Berz didn't even inform us that Ukraine hit another ship of the Black Sea fleet couple days ago and made a (big?) push south to the other bank of the Dnipro in Kherson oblast

[Berzerker]

Well aint that a shame, Israel is distracting us from the existential threat to Nato... Apparently Nato cannot survive if the people of the Donbas dont want to join.

[Berzerker]

Then why are FAR MORE of those PEOPLE DEAD NOW... In what universe do you protect people by killing and raping them, while destroying their towns and lives.
I guess you saw that on a video on Rumble.

Obama and Biden armed Nazis to kill Ukrainians and you're upset because Putin attacked our Nazis.

[Geronimo]

Obama and Biden armed Nazis to kill Ukrainians and you're upset because Putin attacked our Nazis.

When did they arm Nazis to kill Ukrainians? When they crowdfunded Azov and all of the other crowdfunded Ukrainian government licensed "volunteer" formations? If that counts as "to kill Ukrainians" does that mean that all weapons funded anywhere are "to kill group x"? US support of Israel is "to kill Palestinians"? Who is US military support of Egypt supposed to kill?

Do you understand that weapons are just as capable of saving the lives of their recipients as they are of killing the recipients neighbors? Do you understand that since Putin's invasion several previously Russian occupied towns have been liberated in which there are months of burials of thousands of Ukrainians who didn't have any US provided weapons anywhere near them when they were killed? You can't say the same for the Donbas Berz. There the quantity of Russian provided arms everywhere has been extremely high.

The US helped fund Ukraine's paramilitaries post Russian annexation of Crimes and post Russian massive arms shipments to the Donbas. If those arms were intended to kill anyone it was Russian invaders. Do you have one sliver of evidence that the US hoped they would be used to kill Ukrainians? One scintilla of evidence that they weren't intended to deter killing?

Nobody armed Nazis to kill Ukrainians. If you want to endlessly spam that they did show us the evidence Berz.

[Berzerker]

It's hard to take what you have to say seriously when you assert that "We armed ISIS to kill Syrians to topple Assad to hurt Russia and it didn't work so well" when absolutely nothing in that claim is corroborated by anything.

An email disseminating the new (at the time) information that ISIL was declaring a fatwa against Assad said "ISIL is on our side in Syria" and you claimed that meant there was real support for ISIL in Washington, even though everything in the email made clear that ISIL was understood to be an implacable enemy and the context was exclusively tied to noting a top level ISIL declaration of opposition to Assad. Berz, not only did the US never support ISIL, but from the moment ISIL/ISIS reared its ugly head they all planned publicly and behind the scenes on how they could eliminate it. Every discussion of funding for anybody in Syria fretted about whether the funds might inadvertently find their way into ISIL or more generally Al Qaeda's hands.

Even in Afghanistan the armed opposition to the DRA began in 1978 well before one red cent of Washington funding for anybody in Afghanistan. Of course the DRA was started in April 1978 by a soviet funded coup d'etat and US funding didn't begin until July 1979 followed in December 1979 by the massive Soviet Invasion. How is it that your belief that the removal of Viktor Yanukovych was a US funded "coup" leads you to place all responsibility for all subsequent armed conflict at the feet of the US while the April 1978 Afghanistan coup still allows you to place all responsibility for the Afganistan wars at the US' feet as well?

It's almost as if rather than being an impartial observer you might have an axe to grind.

I think the email was from Jake Sullivan to Hillary and he said AQ was on our side in Syria. But lets recap what happened, we destroyed Libya and shipped their weapons to Ukraine and Turkey to arm Azov and ISIS. Our ambassador was killed at one of our shipping points at Benghazi and Hillary blamed a Florida preacher for the deaths. So that was back around 2014 and ISIS spent the next 2-3 years taking half of Syria. Trump shut off the weapons in 2017 and ISIS was effectively gone within months.

"AQ is on our side in Syria"

We armed terrorists to destroy Syria. What evidence do you have showing this didn't happen? Barack said they were moderate rebels, no really.

[dannubis]

Seek help.

[BeBMan]

What evidence do you have showing this didn't happen?

[Berzerker]

Then why are FAR MORE of those PEOPLE DEAD NOW... In what universe do you protect people by killing and raping them, while destroying their towns and lives.
I guess you saw that on a video on Rumble.

Thats on us... We toppled the Ukrainian govt and armed Nazis to kill protesters. Russia responded to the situation we created. As for the dead, Russia has no policy of killing and raping civilians, they are fighting the soldiers sent by Kiev to attack the Donbas. Course when they evacuate civilians from Ukrainian attacks Putin is accused of war crimes. Hey, Iraq has WMD, lets invade! I believe the civilian death toll from Gaza is approaching the tally from Ukraine in almost 2 years of fighting and most of those deaths were caused by Kiev, not Moscow. Amnesty Intl reported the Ukrainian practice of hit and run attacks using civilians as shields and then leaving them behind to be hit by the Russian return fire. For some reason you think the people of the Donbas support our Nazis and want to be ruled by Kiev, they spent 8 years begging Moscow to defend them from us.

[Ming]

They didn't "respond"... they used it as a lame ass excuse to expand the empire.
Again, how many of those people they are "defending" have been killed and raped with towns being destroyed.
You never seem to address that point.

[Berzerker]

When did they arm Nazis to kill Ukrainians? When they crowdfunded Azov and all of the other crowdfunded Ukrainian government licensed "volunteer" formations? If that counts as "to kill Ukrainians" does that mean that all weapons funded anywhere are "to kill group x"? US support of Israel is "to kill Palestinians"? Who is US military support of Egypt supposed to kill?

Do you understand that weapons are just as capable of saving the lives of their recipients as they are of killing the recipients neighbors? Do you understand that since Putin's invasion several previously Russian occupied towns have been liberated in which there are months of burials of thousands of Ukrainians who didn't have any US provided weapons anywhere near them when they were killed? You can't say the same for the Donbas Berz. There the quantity of Russian provided arms everywhere has been extremely high.

The US helped fund Ukraine's paramilitaries post Russian annexation of Crimes and post Russian massive arms shipments to the Donbas. If those arms were intended to kill anyone it was Russian invaders. Do you have one sliver of evidence that the US hoped they would be used to kill Ukrainians? One scintilla of evidence that they weren't intended to deter killing?

Nobody armed Nazis to kill Ukrainians. If you want to endlessly spam that they did show us the evidence Berz.

2014-present... Possibly before, I find it hard to believe we weren't arming Ukraine before the coup but they'll admit to Timber Sycamore beginning back around the time Jake Sullivan was telling Hillary Al Qaeda was on our side in Syria. We had all these Libyan weapons to help our various proxies so what was a good neighbor to do? Thats what our ambassador was doing at Benghazi, shipping weapons to Azov and ISIS (among other fine people). Aint we wonderful? The USA waging a war on terrorism is about as hypocritical and laughable as the USA waging a war on drugs, we're 2nd to no one.

It means we armed Azov to kill protesters and thats what they did with our blessing. Kiev sent a Nazi army backed by the USA to kill Ukrainians. I understand not to trust claims coming from Kiev and Washington. But since those towns were fought over for years I'd expect mass burials. As for no US weapons, we were shipping weapons from Libya and other sources. The people of the Donbas were attacked by Azov and they defended themselves.True or false? If false, why?

[Ming]

You still haven't addressed the Russia just defending the people BS. He doesn't give a rats ass about them, as can be seen by the results.
It was a Empire Grab pure and simple, but keep trying to paint Russia as the saviors. Tell that to all the dead.

[Berzerker]

then why did Putin spend 8 years trying to avoid this 'land grab'?

[pchang]

Russia news/propaganda appears to be in disarray. Retreat from Kherson: did they or didn't they?

[Geronimo]

I think the email was from Jake Sullivan to Hillary and he said AQ was on our side in Syria. But lets recap what happened, we destroyed Libya and shipped their weapons to Ukraine and Turkey to arm Azov and ISIS. Our ambassador was killed at one of our shipping points at Benghazi and Hillary blamed a Florida preacher for the deaths. So that was back around 2014 and ISIS spent the next 2-3 years taking half of Syria. Trump shut off the weapons in 2017 and ISIS was effectively gone within months.

"AQ is on our side in Syria"

We armed terrorists to destroy Syria. What evidence do you have showing this didn't happen? Barack said they were moderate rebels, no really.

February 12, 2012 - An email from Jake Sullivan to Hillary: 'Al Qaeda is on our side in Syria' - The Clinton Foundation Timeline

That's it isn't it? How the hell does it make more sense to imagine that Jake meant to say that the US was arming and supplying ISIL and planned to do so in the future rather than expressing satisfaction that one of the US enemies was publicly declaring hostility to another of its enemies? It's not hard to tell. read the damn email. There is nothing whatsoever besides taking the phrase totally out of context to support your assertion that the US funneled arms to ISIL but that fits your narrative so you run with it and spam it out into every other conversation about the topic.

[Berzerker]

Hmm... I'm not one to throw accusations of treason around lightly given its limited definition in our constitution, but the USA declared war on terrorism and Obama and Biden were arming the terrorists.