Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Geronimo]

The ban on arming Azov was symbolic, it didn't happen. Why would Russia support protests against the guy they preferred? People in the Donbas didn't support the coup so Kiev attacked them.

How would you know if it happened? There's people using illegal drugs that I am aware of. Does that mean the ban on those drugs is symbolic?

Why wouldn't Russia intervene, however it felt that it could, in order to oppose protests against the guy they preferred?

"People in Donbas didn't support the coup so Kiev attacked them". Is that any different from, "Separatists in Donbas, declared independence from Ukraine because they were angry when the lawful Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Viktor Yanukovych from power, so the new Kiev government attacked the Separatists."? If not, who cares?

Without the coup there was no 'constitutional action' (murdering a bunch of people can have that effect) and the cops were being fired on by the snipers so they retreated. There's more than 1 guy, eyewitness, medical and forensic evidence show snipers were shooting cops and protesters. Overlooked, ignored, that describes what happened to the victims after the coup. Lets ask the people of the Donbas if that was a coup. It was so fortunate Victoria Nuland had already picked the president's successor. We love constitutions

Wrong. If foreign back snipers kill 100 people on both sides or just one or the other side of protests against a president then the president being forced from power by the parliament isn't a coup. Duh. Why should we take seriously people in the Donbas calling it coup?

I hope you don't think a mass shooting occuring in Washington during protests against a US president could render constitutional removal of the president from power somehow impossible? If the president was removed that would mean any state that has people that call that a coup can secede?


I picked last year's Superbowl winner. Does that mean I control the NFL behind the scenes?

[Geronimo]

Without the coup there was no 'constitutional action' (murdering a bunch of people can have that effect) and the cops were being fired on by the snipers so they retreated. There's more than 1 guy, eyewitness, medical and forensic evidence show snipers were shooting cops and protesters. Overlooked, ignored, that describes what happened to the victims after the coup. Lets ask the people of the Donbas if that was a coup. It was so fortunate Victoria Nuland had already picked the president's successor. We love constitutions

Don't you also find it curious that precisely enough parliamentary members were disappeared to deny parliament the 75% quorum required to impeach? You keep extrapolating from a couple interviews vast conspiracies and behind-the-scenes a "coup", but shouldn't we more suspicious about that?

[Berzerker]

The ban on arming Azov was symbolic, it didn't happen. Why would Russia support protests against the guy they preferred? People in the Donbas didn't support the coup so Kiev attacked them.

[Berzerker]

Yes, of course....a BBC interview of one guy should definitely make us overlook the constitutional action of the elected Ukrainian Parliament.


Yes, of course...the armed troops in the street and the threats to quell the protest should be totally ignored. It is okay to repress your democratic population with the military!



The 2 actions that provoked the war are Democracy and Megalomania. Ukraine's Democracy and Putin's Megalomania.

Without the coup there was no 'constitutional action' (murdering a bunch of people can have that effect) and the cops were being fired on by the snipers so they retreated. There's more than 1 guy, eyewitness, medical and forensic evidence show snipers were shooting cops and protesters. Overlooked, ignored, that describes what happened to the victims after the coup. Lets ask the people of the Donbas if that was a coup. It was so fortunate Victoria Nuland had already picked the president's successor. We love constitutions

[Geronimo]

I would like to see a status quo ante bellum peace and Zelensky gone.

Tell us about the kind of relief that Zelensky being gone will provide to you.

[Geronimo]

Yes, of course....a BBC interview of one guy should definitely make us overlook the constitutional action of the elected Ukrainian Parliament.


Yes, of course...the armed troops in the street and the threats to quell the protest should be totally ignored. It is okay to repress your democratic population with the military!



The 2 actions that provoked the war are Democracy and Megalomania. Ukraine's Democracy and Putin's Megalomania.

The constitutionality of the removal of Viktor from office is disputable. They chose not to impeach him (required 75% vote to convict), instead unanimously voting (with only about 73% of parliament present to cast a vote) to enact a special binding resolution to remove him from office citing a loophole in the constitution where there was no formal process to otherwise remove a president who "abandoned" his duties. That's a constitutional crisis rather than a coup or a constitutional action, imho. That's also part of the reason I usually stress the fairness of subsequent elections such as that for Zelensky rather than the parliamentary removal of Viktor to defend the legitimacy of the current Kyiv regime.

As to deployment of armed troops by Viktor. He only used law enforcement throughout Euromaidan rather than "troops". The law enforcement were deployed against protestor camps which were not only associated with huge peaceful protests but also the large riots and forced public building occupations by protestors/rioters that accompanied them. I think it is clear that Viktor's actions were at least as restrained as the subsequent actions against Separatists in the Donbas by his successors.

The war was provoked by deep divisions in Ukraine, by the arming of the opposing sides by Russia and various Western governments, especially through crowdfunding sites that the succeeding Ukrainian government setup to raise new militias with "to restore order' and was especially provoked by Russia deploying the regular Russian military into to Ukraine along with large covert Russian operations that typically became overt actions later on. There's mountains of corroborating evidence of all of that Russian intervention. The only evidence of armed US or even "Western" armed intervention is an interview with this guy which some people say proves the US paid snipers to kill a hundred street level people on both sides of the conflict during Euromaidan.

Ukrainians started the rioting, the US and Russia fanned those flames, and Russia started the civil war and the war while the US settled into sometimes sending money to Ukraine to help and sometimes talking about doing so and then stopping because of the bad optics associated with early Azov which was banned by act of US congress from receiving any US aid whatsoever for nearly all of 2015 to 2022.

If the US had sat on its hands and done nothing whatsoever, there surely would still have been a huge Euromaidan protest/riots and an enormous political division/constitutional crisis. The $5 billion the US sent to 'support' democracy prior to the rioting would have been nowhere near enough to remove Viktor from office and in any case the vast majority of the US money was already accounted for in transactions utterly useless for removing a president (or even for spreading unrest) that took place several years before Viktor was elected. Viktor himself would have had access to block or audit anything left over for the US to work with after that.

[PLATO]

The BBC interviewed one of the snipers, that was a coup.

Yes, of course....a BBC interview of one guy should definitely make us overlook the constitutional action of the elected Ukrainian Parliament.

They murdered over 100 people and blamed it on the president to drive him from office.

Yes, of course...the armed troops in the street and the threats to quell the protest should be totally ignored. It is okay to repress your democratic population with the military!

The guy in the video didn't mention that or how Azov attacked protesters in the east before the Russian army intervened. He just blithely skips right on by the 2 actions that provoked this war.

The 2 actions that provoked the war are Democracy and Megalomania. Ukraine's Democracy and Putin's Megalomania.

[Egbert]

I would like to see a status quo ante bellum peace and Zelensky gone.

[Berzerker]

The BBC interviewed one of the snipers, that was a coup. They murdered over 100 people and blamed it on the president to drive him from office. The guy in the video didn't mention that or how Azov attacked protesters in the east before the Russian army intervened. He just blithely skips right on by the 2 actions that provoked this war.

[Dinner]

Are you still lying about mythical "coup" which followed the constitutional process to the letter?

[Berzerker]

He did a video on what provoked the war and didn't mention the 2014 coup to overthrow the democratically elected president popular in the east or the right wing violence against protesters and ethnic Russians. Dont you think that omission is conspicuous? We backed a massacre and unleashed fanatics on Ukraine to bleed Russia with a proxy war on their border. I wonder what that guy would say if Russia did that to our neighbor.

He also argues Zelensky is a sufficient rebuttal to Azov's influence. It was Azov that led the attack on the east in 2014, Zelensky told people he'd end the war so they elected him in 2019 but he had no effect on policy. Obviously. Do you believe Joe Biden wanted this war?

And then he dismisses talk of Nazis by pointing out Russia knows about them too so that makes it propaganda. So did western media after that coup you didn't mention. I'm sure if Latvia hosts Nato missiles aimed at Moscow Russia will feel threatened, look at what we did in Cuba.

[Dinner]

For Berz,

https://youtu.be/Rh4QU7hxKVg

[Geronimo]

Speaking of distractions, apparently there was an incursion into Russian territory in the vicinity of Belgorad, by something called "The Freedom of Russia Legion". "Territory was captured".

Apparently they had at least one tank

[The Mad Monk]

Speaking of distractions, apparently there was an incursion into Russian territory in the vicinity of Belgorad, by something called "The Freedom of Russia Legion". "Territory was captured".

[The Mad Monk]

Prigozhin(sp) announced that Wagner had taken Bahkmut, and in the same video, stated that they will stay there until the 25th and then pull out entirely, leaving the defense to the Russian MOD.

So, if anything, it's the Russian army that's getting encircled.