Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Berzerker]

I dont know... Kiev was the aggressor against the Donbas, Nazis attacked the people there protesting the coup. Nothing about 'democracy' and little green men can change that fact.

https://youtu.be/pgj3p2jIVtI

Former Kiev diplomat on the coup and how western corruption is destroying Ukraine. At 49m in he says Shokin had opened 2 cases into Burisma, Democrats claimed Biden fired him for not investigating Burisma. Yeah, Biden was so mad Shokin wouldn't investigate Hunter's company he used a billion $ bribe to get him fired. Democrats actually made that argument. Those cases were closed after Shokin was gone and Ukrainian law had to be changed specifically for the replacement because he didn't have the required legal training lol.

[Berzerker]

Most of Azov were from the Donbas. WTH were they supposed to "withdraw" to? A plurality of people in the Donbas have never voted for independence from Ukraine. A decisive plurality did vote for Ukrainian independence from the USSR however. Minsk being a sham is a good reason for Russia to withdraw from Ukraine. If we sent a Nazi army to kill eastern Ukrainians why did they suck so bad at it? 8 years of Ukrainian nazi armies targeting civilians with all of the ammunition they had at their disposal and Russia still managed to kill more Eastern Ukrainians living in the Donbas in 8 months than Ukraine could manage in 8 years. I guess Russia is better at sending nazi armies to accomplish these kinds of things. Maybe Washington is taking notes for the next time they are lining up a nazi army to kill civilians for not supporting their coups?

Their base was Mariupol and a majority (~55%?) of the Donbas voted for Minsk and another 30-35% wanted independence. That leaves at best 15% support for Kiev. The vote you're citing was in the early 90s, not after the 2014 coup and attack by Azov. If the Nazis sucked so bad the Donbas wouldn't have asked Moscow for help, but they were efficient and millions fled their homes and Putin intervened militarily twice to halt Azov's advances. So basically your argument is Russia is wrong for helping the Donbas defend against Nazis because civilians are killed in the war started by Nazis.

[Ming]

No... your argument is that Russia is in the right attacking another nation, killing and raping their citizens and trying to grab as much land for themselves as possible. And that is just so totally wrong.

[Berzerker]

Hmmm... so that gave Russia the right to invade a foreign nation, and then march on their capital while killing civilians along the way and targeting areas not in Donbas.
Just more crap. They had NO RIGHT to invade another country just so they could increase their land and resources.
They obviously didn't give a damn about the people in Donbas since they raped and killed them.
But feel free to continue to justify Russian aggression while trying to call it HELP

So Russia is wrong to invade Ukraine to defend the Donbas but Azov was right to invade the Donbas to defend... um... Who are they defending again? I dont know why you think an imaginary line called a country matters when it comes down to basic human rights. The US was founded on the rights to secede and self defense and the Donbas have both. Kiev and Washington have no moral authority to compel those people to live under Azov's penchant for cultural cleansing. A sad little reality awaiting a Ukrainian victory, millions of people subject to a decade of war will be ruled by the people attacking them.

Eastern Ukrainians rejected a right wing coup and got attacked by Nazis for 8 years. During that time eastern Ukrainians made repeated requests to Moscow for help and got it, including 2 military interventions in 2014-15 leading to Minsk. Why did Putin wait 8 years or support Minsk if stealing land was his goal? The USA currently occupies about 1/3rd of Syria rich with oil and food. People in Russia watched a right wing coup across the border followed by a purge of dissenters by Nazis. Of course Russians wanted their kin in eastern Ukraine defended from Azov, they must have been demanding Putin help them.

I think its real simple, let the people living there vote on their future. Judging by the Minsk votes a small majority could still support a semi-autonomous union within Ukraine, but Russia wants more than that. They want Ukrainian neutrality, no Nato, no Azov, demilitarization. The US wants regime change in Moscow and the further disintegration of Russia for resources and to weaken China. Hasn't worked, Brandon has pissed off so many countries China has become very popular and the dollar is in trouble.

[Berzerker]

No... your argument is that Russia is in the right attacking another nation, killing and raping their citizens and trying to grab as much land for themselves as possible. And that is just so totally wrong.

My argument is Nazis dont have the right to kill people protesting their coup. If Nazis do kill people protesting their coup I dont want my govt arming them and pretending its about democracy. Next they'll be arming Islamic terrorists and calling them moderates.

[Ming]

Gee... I guess Mexico can invade Texas and you would support them since Mexicans are so badly treated in Texas and other Red states.

And your underwear is showing every time you call OUR president Brandon.
Your bias is blinding you into believing all the crap being spewed by right wing media.

The facts are simple. RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE. FACT.
The people they are supposedly protecting are being killed and raped by Russian forces.
All they want is the land.

[-Jrabbit]

Let's not forget about kidnapping all their kids and calling it "protection."

[BeBMan]

Modi has visited France to buy lotsa Russian weapons:

https://www.politico.eu/article/india-buys-french-rafale-fighter-jets-and-submarines-as-narendra-modi-visits-emmanuel-macron/

[N35t0r]

Maybe he thinks that the Russian Su-35s might get more than delayed?

[BeBMan]

Might be because they have to buy extra GPS thingies for them first...

[PLATO]

Most of Azov were from the Donbas. WTH were they supposed to "withdraw" to? A plurality of people in the Donbas have never voted for independence from Ukraine. A decisive plurality did vote for Ukrainian independence from the USSR however. Minsk being a sham is a good reason for Russia to withdraw from Ukraine. If we sent a Nazi army to kill eastern Ukrainians why did they suck so bad at it? 8 years of Ukrainian nazi armies targeting civilians with all of the ammunition they had at their disposal and Russia still managed to kill more Eastern Ukrainians living in the Donbas in 8 months than Ukraine could manage in 8 years. I guess Russia is better at sending nazi armies to accomplish these kinds of things. Maybe Washington is taking notes for the next time they are lining up a nazi army to kill civilians for not supporting their coups?

This is an excellent and often overlooked point. The Ukrainian Army was able to bring the Russian army to a halt across a 600 mile front and force a total retreat from one theatre...and we are supposed to believe that a group of rebels in Donbas held that same Ukrainian army at bay for 8 years when they were "trying to kill the people of Donbas"?

Berz does a notable job of picking points out of a post to contest while totally ignoring parts of those posts that totally dismantle his argument. He reminds me of Baghdad Bob in the ghastly hilarity of it.

[The Mad Monk]

If it is so, why the combined GPD of BRICS countries is more than G7 already, not including the 20 other large World economies, who want to join it now?

https://www.silkroadbriefing.com/news/2023/03/27/the-brics-has-overtaken-the-g7-in-global-gdp/#:~:text=The%20current%20BRICS%20five%20now,almost %20certainly%20bringing%20that%20forward.

Your time is over, Western bloodsucking imperialists!

The BRICS alliance with Brazil, Russia, India, China & South Africa is planning to float a new currency to settle international trade payments to challenge the global reserve status of the US dollar. The bloc of the five nations is likely to jointly decide on floating a new BRICS currency during its next summit in August, 2023 to be held at Johannesburg in South Africa. Although all other countries constituting BRICS, including Brazil, Russia, China, and South Africa seem to be on the side of issuance of a common BRICS currency, India seems to be the only country that has not shown interest in the plans to launch a new currency.

India’s Stand

India’s External Affairs Minister, S. Jaishankar in a press conference held on Monday, 3rd July, 2023 said that India has no plans for a BRICS currency. He declared a month before the summit that India might back out from creating the new currency. Instead, India is focused on strengthening its national currency, the Rupee, and making Rupee stronger will be the top priority of the Indian government, Jaishankar had stated.

Justification for this stand

1. India is the only country in the bloc that is doing well in terms of GDP on its merit. As such, the country needs no support from BRICS and can survive without the new BRICS currency, it is claimed.
2. India also has good relations with the U.S. and Europe with trade and military deals worth billions of dollars. Country does not want to risk its trade with Western powers, believing in the yet-to-be-released BRICS currency.

Efforts to expand the bloc

The bloc which earlier included Brazil, Russia, India, and China has not expanded since the inclusion of South Africa in it in 2010. The increasing relevance of the global south has become an important development during the current year as the BRICS has embarked on expanding the bloc. Reportedly a host of Middle Eastern and African nations have expressed interest in joining the bloc. It is obvious, with the vast national resources held by China and Russia, nations who want to join, see the benefit of joining the BRICS Alliance, which ultimately aims to challenge the US dominance.

India, however, is likely to press for deciding well-defined criteria for the proposed addition of new members to the BRICS grouping of emerging nations, instead of extending membership solely on the basis of recommendations by present members. If BRICS nations decide on taking in new members, India therefore would want formulation of well-established criteria for qualification.

Changing Scenario since BRICS appeared on the International Stage

The US which enjoyed the global superpower status post-World War II is today being challenged by BRICS. Efforts in this direction seem to be afoot as the BRICS embarks on expanding the bloc with a goal to dominate world trade by 2050.

The bloc took a massive step with the establishment of the New Development Bank in 2014, set up with $50 billion in seed money. The New Development Bank floated assumes significance as it provides competition to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), an organization known for conducting operations based on political interest of the developed west. However, over the years BRICS is developing into much more than an economic bloc & trying to establish itself as representing a voice of the global south.

Reportedly, China remains the main force driving the BRICS expansion process with the intention of dethroning the U.S. dollar. The Chinese government is pushing nations around the world to join the bloc and accept the soon-to-be-released currency with the intention of dethroning the U.S. dollar from its global reserve status. Russia and China are also said to be fast-tracking a payment technology that could make trading with the yet-to-be-released BRICS currency easier.

Suspected Agenda of China

Reports suggest that China is using BRICS as a weapon in its quest to dethrone the U.S. dollar as the global reserve currency. The Chinese government is said to be eyeing for the U.S. dollar collapse with BRICS is believed to be the stepping stone to turn the idea into a reality. However, the other three countries India, Brazil, and South Africa seem to be skeptical about the prospects of China dominating the world. They fear that Xi Jinping could impose his vision of the global order, when the new currency appears on the international stage.

India particularly is skeptical about the intentions of China for the following reasons:

• India is wary of China’s power & her prowling nature, and hence wants to remain alert of thepossibility of China, a communist & authoritarian country using BRICS for her self-interest.
• India feels theBRICS alliance is becoming China-centricmaking the communist nation the recipient of international trade deals.
• India feels, Xi Jinping ledChina is trying to become a global economic and military superpower and BRICS could be the stepping stone to achieve her goal.
• China is pressurising several countries to settle trade using Chinese Yuanto outdo every other member of BRICS to enable China to follow her plan of action & impose Xi Jinping’s vision of the global order, once the new currency reigns on the international stage.
• China and India have been at odds for more than a decade now despite being together as members in BRICS. It is noteworthy that India previously banned Chinese goods from entering the country and placed a ban on Chinese apps, including TikTok, a short-form video hosting service and Shein, the Chinese online fast fashion retailer.

India is therefore rightfully worried that Beijing is using the platform of BRICS for imposing President Xi Jinping’s vision on the countries of the world by dethroning the US dollar & becoming a global economic & military superpower.

Looks like India is not playing your game, mainly because it doesn't trust China.

[pchang]

No currency with capital controls will ever become the world’s reserve currency.

[Berzerker]

Gee... I guess Mexico can invade Texas and you would support them since Mexicans are so badly treated in Texas and other Red states.

And your underwear is showing every time you call OUR president Brandon.
Your bias is blinding you into believing all the crap being spewed by right wing media.

The facts are simple. RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE. FACT.
The people they are supposedly protecting are being killed and raped by Russian forces.
All they want is the land.

Mexicans are invading Texas and we haven't unleashed the artillery on them yet. I've despised Biden for decades and he is a right winger. If a zealously anti-Hispanic right wing coup in Washington led to a Russian backed Nazi army attacking protesters in the SW and no one defended the victims, I would not condemn Mexico for helping them. I sure wouldn't be handing the Nazis cash and weapons for gods sake. Brandon wanted this war and Kiev invaded the Donbas with his blessing and support to get it.

[-Jrabbit]

More steaming excrement. Kiev literally cannot invade the Donbas -- IT'S THEIRS ALREADY.

[Berzerker]

lets ask the people of the Donbas

[Berzerker]

I thought RT was censored...democracy and all that

[Ming]

Mexicans are invading Texas and we haven't unleashed the artillery on them yet. I've despised Biden for decades and he is a right winger. If a zealously anti-Hispanic right wing coup in Washington led to a Russian backed Nazi army attacking protesters in the SW and no one defended the victims, I would not condemn Mexico for helping them. I sure wouldn't be handing the Nazis cash and weapons for gods sake. Brandon wanted this war and Kiev invaded the Donbas with his blessing and support to get it.

More made up crap. Total opinion.
Biden... a right winger....
Where do you find this crap
The true right wingers are the Repubs, and their desire to limit freedoms for ALL types of minorities. If you aren't white, they don't give a damn about you and don't want you to vote.
They are Nazis and want straight white people to rule while limiting EVERYBODY ELSE.
They have put America second in their push to limit individual freedoms.

[BeBMan]

Putin explaining quantum fizzics:

Kolesnikov also asked Putin if Wagner Group would remain “as a combat unit.” To this, the Russian president replied that Wagner Group does not exist, as Russia has no law on private military organizations.

“We don’t have a law on private military organizations! It simply does not exist! <…> The group exists, but legally it does not exist! This is a separate issue related to actual legalization. But this is a question that should be discussed in the State Duma, in the government. It’s not an easy question,” Putin added.

Wagner is Schroedingers Mercs.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/07/14/putin-says-wagner-group-no-longer-legally-exists

[Geronimo]

lets ask the people of the Donbas.

Okay.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/15/russia-ukraine-donbas-donetsk-luhansk-public-opinion/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/02/russians-hunted-down-veterans-of-donbas-conflict-ukraine

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1060586X.2018.1447769?journalCode=rpsa20

The only polls you'll find supporting the special operation in any part of the Donbas are the ones taken at the muzzle of a gun by the Separatists themselves Berz.