Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Berzerker]

Apart from insisting that Washington could assassinate Zelensky but that Putin wouldn't or couldn't this entire post seems more plausible than your usual "Ukraine is a Washington puppet invading the Donbas at US behest" narrative and your "ISIS were created and funded by the US" narrative.

I agree that it is possible that Putin wanted to conquer the Donbas and force Zelensky to deal with a march to Kiev. I don't agree that Zelensky ever signed a peace deal with Putin, and I'm sure Russia withdrew back across the Belarus border because the Kiev campaign had become a total fustercluck that threatened to otherwise lose all that war material. I don't think any foreign power could have stopped zelensky from signing anything but I certainly think he didn't really want to sign away anything and he certainly could be convinced that Ukraine's allies would be there for him. I *do* think they broke that promise and delivered far less military aid that should have been the case if they were determined to make sure Ukraine would win. There was no signed deal with Putin for Zelensky to violate. I don't see why you have difficulty accepting that.

Russia no doubt may have hoped to porcupine against a Ukrainian offensive and follow up with an counter offensive as Ukrainian resources depleted. Where it goes from there might not diverge much between our PoVs Berz.

I don't see why you think the west had to support ISIS whatsover. ISIS has considerable military resources to bring to bare all on its own and they did not *ever* control anywhere near a majority of the original anti-Assad opposition forces. It makes perfect sense that Washington would try to shore up the "moderates" while Assad and Russia would focus on destroying them first. Assad and Russia waited until ISIS was nearly destroyed before they attacked them at all. If the US had been able to somehow work with an abomination like ISIS, Assad would be history. Assad remains in power because nobody in Washington could even bring themselves to think about helping ISIS, or any other AQ fragment whatsoever. How is that difficult for you to understand?

I didn't identify the assassin, his own people already murdered a negotiator back when these peace talks were ongoing and probably why Putin agreed to keep the details secret. But yes, if Zelensky tried to make peace he'd likely be assassinated by the Ukrainian right wing and/or the USA or we'd offer our blessing like we did with the coup (assuming we didn't plan that too). If Putin wanted Zelensky dead he'd be dead.

The narrative of a massive counter attack decimating the Russian army advancing on Kiev is BS, they withdrew because they had a deal. Here's our deal: you get rich or you get dead. Not many people would choose the latter. Of all the main players in this who would kill Zelensky for refusing to do as told? Yeah, the Nazis and Joe Biden.

If Ukraine 'wins' Nazis will control the Donbas and Crimea thanks to us. That aint gonna happen. I wouldn't even inflict them on the rest of Ukraine. Why did we empower effing Nazis to run Ukraine? The place was already suffering from massive corruption. As for the deal:

"Arakhamia said that internationally mediated negotiations in Istanbul, shortly after the March 2022 talks in Belarus, actually produced an agreement between Ukraine and Russia to bring the fighting to an end—on the basis of those same points.

“[The Russians] were ready to end the war if we accepted neutrality like Finland once did. And we were ready to make a commitment that we would not join NATO. When we returned from Istanbul, [then-British Prime Minister] Boris Johnson came to Kiev and said: ‘Do not sign anything with them at all; just go to war,’” Arakhamia said."

"According to Schroeder, the deal would have included four main points: The first was that Ukraine would abandon plans to join NATO. The second was that bans on the Russian language in Ukraine would be removed. The third was that Donbass would remain in Ukraine but function as an autonomous region. The fourth was that the U.N. and Germany would offer to supervise the security agreements. The Crimea situation was left to be addressed in the future."

https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/u-s-repeatedly-blocked-ukraine-peace-deals-is-it-rethinking-its-strategy-yet/

Reagan called his terrorists freedom fighters, Obama called his moderate rebels. I never said the west had to arm ISIS, just that we did. The earliest we've admitted to arming ISIS is 2014 with Timber Sycamore and the dispersal of Libya's arsenal. By 2016 ISIS/AQ had taken half of Syria and Obama's moderate rebels were nowhere to be seen other than a little cubby hole up there on Turkey's border where the weapons were entering Syria, gee whiz Wally aint that a coincidink. Trump got elected and ended the policy of arming ISIS and let Russia attack them and within months they were pretty much gone.

[Ming]

Again Berz... please provide actual proof that Biden wanted war.
You just pull that stuff out of nowhere.
And you still seem to have hero worship of Putin, who is just trying to "save" his people...
You know, the people his troops were killing and raping. You never seem to address the point that Putin hasn't protected or saved anybody in Ukraine.
But I'm sure you will keep up your BS story that Biden is the one to blame for this war, and that Putin is the hero.

[Geronimo]

Russia didn't bring an army to conquer Ukraine, much less the old USSR or Europe and that was obvious to unbiased observers. Their plan was to occupy Ukraine in the east and send an army south from Belarus to Kiev so Zelensky would deal and he did... Ukraine would lose the Donbas with limitations on their future military. Putin's mistake was thinking the USA couldn't talk Zelensky into sacrificing thousands of Ukrainians for Joe Biden. Course Putin aint the one who'd assassinate Zelensky if he made peace.

I'm sure the goal for Russia now is to neutralize the Ukrainian right wing so it doesn't rule Kiev when this is over but I dont see the USA ending its war, not when we still have willing cannon fodder. One of the reasons why the USA invaded Iraq was to attract Islamists to our preferred battlefield. I think that became Russia's plan after Zelensky violated their deal. Putin knows the USA and Nazis are the power in Ukraine so Russia built defenses and invited Azov to attack.

The west supported ISIS in Syria to regime change Assad, not so ISIS could take over. If they had we would have wiped them out and replaced them with our people. That is Azov's fate in Ukraine. We dont really want Nazis running Kiev, we want them dying in a war with Russia. Two birds with one stone... What better way to attract the world's Nazis to their deaths. Soros is a Ukrainian Jew with a personal history with the Nazis, I dont think he likes Azov, do you? I know Soros hates Russia but he must hate Banderites too. I think that fairly reflects the broad consensus in the west.

Apart from insisting that Washington could assassinate Zelensky but that Putin wouldn't or couldn't this entire post seems more plausible than your usual "Ukraine is a Washington puppet invading the Donbas at US behest" narrative and your "ISIS were created and funded by the US" narrative.

I agree that it is possible that Putin wanted to conquer the Donbas and force Zelensky to deal with a march to Kiev. I don't agree that Zelensky ever signed a peace deal with Putin, and I'm sure Russia withdrew back across the Belarus border because the Kiev campaign had become a total fustercluck that threatened to otherwise lose all that war material. I don't think any foreign power could have stopped zelensky from signing anything but I certainly think he didn't really want to sign away anything and he certainly could be convinced that Ukraine's allies would be there for him. I *do* think they broke that promise and delivered far less military aid that should have been the case if they were determined to make sure Ukraine would win. There was no signed deal with Putin for Zelensky to violate. I don't see why you have difficulty accepting that.

Russia no doubt may have hoped to porcupine against a Ukrainian offensive and follow up with an counter offensive as Ukrainian resources depleted. Where it goes from there might not diverge much between our PoVs Berz.

I don't see why you think the west had to support ISIS whatsover. ISIS has considerable military resources to bring to bare all on its own and they did not *ever* control anywhere near a majority of the original anti-Assad opposition forces. It makes perfect sense that Washington would try to shore up the "moderates" while Assad and Russia would focus on destroying them first. Assad and Russia waited until ISIS was nearly destroyed before they attacked them at all. If the US had been able to somehow work with an abomination like ISIS, Assad would be history. Assad remains in power because nobody in Washington could even bring themselves to think about helping ISIS, or any other AQ fragment whatsoever. How is that difficult for you to understand?

[Berzerker]

I actually agree that Russia is likely to win at this point. Essentially any territorial gains at Ukraine's expense at all will constitute a victory over Ukraine and when the dust settles Russia will retain a large chunk of it. Russia was horribly inept and their entire operation devolved into a clumsy fustercluck, but they had a large enough economy to absorb all that and Ukraine didn't.

Russia didn't bring an army to conquer Ukraine, much less the old USSR or Europe and that was obvious to unbiased observers. Their plan was to occupy Ukraine in the east and send an army south from Belarus to Kiev so Zelensky would deal and he did... Ukraine would lose the Donbas with limitations on their future military. Putin's mistake was thinking the USA couldn't talk Zelensky into sacrificing thousands of Ukrainians for Joe Biden. Course Putin aint the one who'd assassinate Zelensky if he made peace.

I'm sure the goal for Russia now is to neutralize the Ukrainian right wing so it doesn't rule Kiev when this is over but I dont see the USA ending its war, not when we still have willing cannon fodder. One of the reasons why the USA invaded Iraq was to attract Islamists to our preferred battlefield. I think that became Russia's plan after Zelensky violated their deal. Putin knows the USA and Nazis are the power in Ukraine so Russia built defenses and invited Azov to attack.

The west supported ISIS in Syria to regime change Assad, not so ISIS could take over. If they had we would have wiped them out and replaced them with our people. That is Azov's fate in Ukraine. We dont really want Nazis running Kiev, we want them dying in a war with Russia. Two birds with one stone... What better way to attract the world's Nazis to their deaths. Soros is a Ukrainian Jew with a personal history with the Nazis, I dont think he likes Azov, do you? I know Soros hates Russia but he must hate Banderites too. I think that fairly reflects the broad consensus in the west.

[Berzerker]

I'm seeing more stories from conveyors of the narrative Ukraine has lost

[Geronimo]

very Wilsonian of you... but what brain trust actually thought Russia would lose?

I actually agree that Russia is likely to win at this point. Essentially any territorial gains at Ukraine's expense at all will constitute a victory over Ukraine and when the dust settles Russia will retain a large chunk of it. Russia was horribly inept and their entire operation devolved into a clumsy fustercluck, but they had a large enough economy to absorb all that and Ukraine didn't.

[Dauphin]

Dimitry Peskov.

[Geronimo]

"Boris Johnson came to Kiev and said that we will not sign anything with them at all, and lets just fight" - Zelensky aide

this wouldn't prove anything. Who was this aide in any case?

[Berzerker]

He kept mum about the deal for the Ukrainian negotiators. Please run down a list of his lies regarding Ukraine so we can compare it to the tome of our lies.

[Berzerker]

"In an historic move, the Justice Department on Wednesday announced it is unsealing war crimes charges against four Russia-affiliated military personnel with disturbing details of their alleged torture and inhumane treatment of a U.S. national in Ukraine following Russia's invasion of the country last year.

This is the first time ever that the department has filed charges under the U.S. war crimes statute."

[pchang]

But, we do know that UAE will not be honoring anything as pesky as an Interpol Red Notice.

[BeBMan]

Putin visits the UAE. At this point it is not known if he has enough alcohol, drugs and grenades on his plane.

[pchang]

“Nothing Putin promises is worth the paper it’s written on.” - Random guy on internet who KNOWS THINGS

[Ming]

Many guilty people plead innocence. But I guess your videos tell you to believe them too.

[Berzerker]

"Boris Johnson came to Kiev and said that we will not sign anything with them at all, and lets just fight" - Zelensky aide