Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Bereta_Eder]

And we did have our own civil war here as well

actually the history of the US and Greece has many MANY common aspects

many of the most fervent philellines, friends of Greece were americans in the 1800s

[Bereta_Eder]

I respect beyond words that you shared that story with me.
You know we only know what hollywood tells us, and that is a very different story.

I bow my head and have nothing to say to what you told me


I only ask for a bit lenience because I will say this:
you were the same country. We were invaded by a foreign country

But I do hear what you say

[PLATO]

During the American Civil War the Union army burned my Great-Great Grandfather's house, murdered him in front of his wife, raped her and his daughter, beat my teenage Great Grandfather, and stole everything of value they had. (For the record...they were NOT slaveholders...just Farmers. They had no involvement in the war) Do I look at everyone from the Northern U.S. in a vile light? Of course not. Was it a horror that should never be repeated? Of course it shouldn't. My family has never forgotten, but we are all part of the same country. I do not hold it against people what their ancestors did. I judge the person before me for who they are. That is moving on. Maybe it is just to early...maybe that horror was to close in time. I know my Grandfather never said "Yankee" without putting the word "Da mn" in front of it. History teaches us harsh lessons, but it is up to us what we do with them. I can say this...I truly do sympathize with the loss your family experienced. The challenge for the following generations is to ensure it does not happen again. To ultimately make sure of that we must find common ground. That doesn't mean to forget or forgive...it just means looking for a better future for all.

[Bereta_Eder]

My great grand uncle blew up a bridge PLATO

it killed a hundred germans and a full load of armor and weapons

the nazis/germasns got him and tortured him to death

but before he died they released him and got him back to his mother to watch him die

My name is not the same as his, but my grandma always was saying that I am as tall and as proud as my great uncle that the gestapo tortuted to death becasue he was defending his family

I will hold on to my views

[PLATO]

Historical memory helps avoid tragedies

it is not a burden

Oh yes...we should never forget, Those lessons were to hard and should never be forgotten. I believe that is the attitude of Germany's government and people as well. Holding a grudge and judging people by a past they have rejected is both unfair and counterproductive. I did not say "forgive and forget". I said reconciliation and finding common ground based in shared values is the key.

But we do agree that those times and their horror should never be forgotten.

[Bereta_Eder]

Historical memory helps avoid tragedies

it is not a burden

[PLATO]

Yeah...
I give you the frteedom of being far away and judge things from that distance

and grand me the same courtesy to KNOW what has happened

not only me

go far and away all over europe and ask....

no.

your american percective is of no consequence to me

And thus the cycle continues and the plight of man in the balance. Sigh...

[Bereta_Eder]

Yeah...
I give you the frteedom of being far away and judge things from that distance

and grand me the same courtesy to KNOW what has happened

not only me

go far and away all over europe and ask....

no.

your american percective is of no consequence to me

[Ming]

fine line....

all the germans were nazis

But they aren't now... Feel free to hate the Nazis like most people do.
And by the way, ALL Germans were not nazis back then.

[PLATO]

PLATO we are very different but I undersand and respect you

so I am not being ironical

but wear a badge as a "better person"

the far away american in the edge of the world

and leave us in the here and now to know better

much better

We may be far apart, but we all breath the same air. Holding racial grudges is only the path to further bloodshed. We must look for areas where we are the same and can co-operate. We must never accept aggression and must work hard every day to change the mindset of those who think aggression is the answer. Yes, even in our own countries and with our own people. This last applies a lot to my country. When you have the military that we do then every problem seems to have a military solution. That is obviously not the case, but we must have that strength to ensure that aggression does not overcome freedom. That balance isn't always clear but achieving that balance is the goal. The same is true in how we must think about past regimes that harbored aggression. It wise to be vigilant, but the only solution in the end is to try to achieve that in the spirit of reconciliation. The error of not doing that after WW I is one of the root causes of WW II. Let's all not make those mistakes again.

[Bereta_Eder]

Nazis...yes. Hold them accountable. Germans...No.

fine line....

all the germans were nazis

[Bereta_Eder]

PLATO we are very different but I undersand and respect you

so I am not being ironical

but wear a badge as a "better person"

the far away american in the edge of the world

and leave us in the here and now to know better

much better

[PLATO]

Fine haha then you are a "better" person than me


I will hold nazis accountable for ever
and so will hundrends of millions


because we are here and know

Nazis...yes. Hold them accountable. Germans...No.

[Bereta_Eder]

Fine haha then you are a "better" person than me


I will hold nazis accountable for ever
and so will hundrends of millions


because we are here and know

[PLATO]

PLATO,

the germans are nazis in the ruopean consciousness


and will be like that for many more years to come

simple

Then this is an example of where America is ahead of Europe. No group of people are irredeemable. Germany is probably one of the more pacifist states in Europe and extremely conscious of its past. They even have laws on the books outlawing the Nazi party. The Nazi party is not outlawed in many other countries, including the U.S. People here just abhor them...as do the people in Germany from what I can tell.

Clearly the German nation has a very bad past, but equally clearly they make great effort to disassociate that past with the present and future. It is not right to hold a grudge forever. I lost two family members that I never knew in WW II to the German army. They did not deserve to die, but their sacrifice helped usher in an era of a new and stable Germany built on shared democratic values. At some point we all must move on.