The case against Zelensky.

[BeBMan]

So this begs the question from my point of view...Are Communism and Applied Communism different in a real world way?

Some would say communism is some utopian ideal for freeing ppl from oppression etc..

Now, in praxis things turned out rather different...And today it seems to go as "communist" to liberate the intl working class by calling for nuclear war or somesuch.

Interestingly communism in theory was always thought to be internationalist, not nationalist. Reality is - and was - rather different tho.

[N35t0r]

The right (although I've found this more among the libertarian than the authoritarian right) loves to say that Nazis were socialists (you know, they were the national socialist worker's party).

[Geronimo]

The right (although I've found this more among the libertarian than the authoritarian right) loves to say that Nazis were socialists (you know, they were the national socialist worker's party).

That may be what BE was getting at. Although I struggle to equate libertarian right wingers to fascists.

[giblets]

So this begs the question from my point of view...Are Communism and Applied Communism different in a real world way?

Asking questions is counterrevolutionary

[Bereta_Eder]

Oh, they are different enough. Communism was slightly better for most people living under the regime than fascism (although if you were an 'enemy of the state', then that's of little comfort for you, you're pretty much dead). They are closer to each other then either is to a liberal democracy though

Well yes but liberal demcocracy wasn't enforced during the cold war.


You're from latin (or south) america. The US has supressed communism by supporting dictatorships all over the place.


Also in many countries, it would have been better to be communist country than non - communist country because the oppression was less during the cold war.

So yeah democracy is better but again without communist ideals you have the american dystopia not the european social democracy.

Also bebro just loves to go amber heard on communists because they proipably made him learn russian or something.

[Bereta_Eder]

On the question of equating neoliberalism with fascism well yeah, it takes fascism to unregulate the markets.

And neoliberals have an uncanny love for authoritarianism to push their anti-social policies. Thy can't do it any other way.

[Bereta_Eder]

However that is far beyond the scope of the original statement which is:

if you want to do a fascist rapid test, you'll never go wrong if you mark those that equate the horrors of fascism with communism. You have to have a chip on your shoulder in order to say that yeah killing 8 million jews is the same as wanting equality for all.

How much of a fascist they are, that takes more tests.

[N35t0r]

That's ridiculous. The communists might have said they wanted equality for all, but they are the direct cause of two of the greatest famines in history, and in general weren't very keen in giving political opponents anything at all

Of course the basic premise of Fascism is ridiculously backwards, unlike communism's (which is merely highly naive of how humans work), but I doubt that Ukrainians, Chechens, Tatars, gays... really cared about that when they were being genocided.

[N35t0r]

Well yes but liberal demcocracy wasn't enforced during the cold war.


You're from latin (or south) america. The US has supressed communism by supporting dictatorships all over the place.

Russia also mostly supported disctatorships in their attempt to spread communism.
In general, 'winning' was more important than whatever happened to the locals, for both sides.

Also in many countries, it would have been better to be communist country than non - communist country because the oppression was less during the cold war.

This is very far from being true, sorry.

Cuba is far from being a paradise for example. :shrug:

When the military couped the government in Argentina in '78, they did have some US support, but it was relatively minor all things considered. The reason they had all the support they did was because communist guerrillas were routinely putting bombs and kidnapping people. Ultimately the military were solely responsible for what they did and deserve all the guilt for all of it, but if there weren't communist subversive groups sowing chaos, there might not have been support for the coup and we might have managed to avoid the coup

So yeah democracy is better but again without communist ideals you have the american dystopia not the european social democracy.

Also bebro just loves to go amber heard on communists because they proipably made him learn russian or something.

What communist ideals? Heavy oppression, suppression of political dissidence, lack of economic freedom and central planning? I see western Europe at the time (maybe excepting the UK) as much better role-models than the eastern block. That the US was and is a poor example doesn't make the USSR automatically a good role model.