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  • #76
    So you’re saying 2090 is in 10 years?
    RCP4.5 would lead to about 2.8°C (5°F) warming of global surface temperatures above pre-industrial levels by the year 2100.
    I don’t know why they were talking about 2100, but they were.

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    • #77
      And I was only using that study as a reference. Let's say that we dedicate $200b+/yr to combating climate change. They say that's going to save lives. I don't think so. Where is that money coming from? Are you going to cut SS or Medicare? Are you going to add that to the deficit? And you can't just raise taxes without consequences either. Higher taxes reduce economic growth. All of that puts lives at risk. People depend on all of that.
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

        The climate is never going to be FIXED.
        We can fix the issue with CO2 radiative forcing, keeping us squarely in the holocene. That would likely give us centuries or millenia to figure out what to do about other slower developing or catastrophic random effects.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Kidicious View Post
          And I was only using that study as a reference. Let's say that we dedicate $200b+/yr to combating climate change. They say that's going to save lives. I don't think so. Where is that money coming from? Are you going to cut SS or Medicare? Are you going to add that to the deficit? And you can't just raise taxes without consequences either. Higher taxes reduce economic growth. All of that puts lives at risk. People depend on all of that.
          National defense budget.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Aeson View Post
            So you’re saying 2090 is in 10 years?
            RCP4.5 would lead to about 2.8°C (5°F) warming of global surface temperatures above pre-industrial levels by the year 2100.
            I don’t know why they were talking about 2100, but they were.
            Idk. It's not a good analysis IMO. I threw it up because it was suggested that we start spending hundreds of billions on combating climate change. It's just a reference. Climate change isn't costing that right now. So we need a better analysis.
            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Aeson View Post

              We can fix the issue with CO2 radiative forcing, keeping us squarely in the holocene. That would likely give us centuries or millenia to figure out what to do about other slower developing or catastrophic random effects.
              I don't know why you think we can do that. You seem to think that if you spend trillions on something you get what you pay for. No. You don't.
              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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              • #82
                The other area that woukd easily pay it is changes to healthcare. We can have better coverage at about 1/4th to 1/5th the cost either by nationalizing or applying antitrust laws against healthcare providers and drug manufacturers. That would save us something around $400bn a year.

                We currently have the worst aspects of both socialism and privatization in our healthcare system.

                Then all the millions of excess healthcare paper pushers can have jobs planting trees on their own regenerative homesteads that eventually would be profitable.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Aeson View Post

                  National defense budget.
                  We're talking serious lives there. The US military maintains stability throughout the world. It serves as a deterrent to bad actors. Do you think Europe wants us to do that? Do you think Asia wants us to tell China that we are just going to let them take whatever they want?
                  I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                  - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Kidicious View Post
                    And I was only using that study as a reference. Let's say that we dedicate $200b+/yr to combating climate change. They say that's going to save lives. I don't think so. Where is that money coming from? Are you going to cut SS or Medicare? Are you going to add that to the deficit? And you can't just raise taxes without consequences either. Higher taxes reduce economic growth. All of that puts lives at risk. People depend on all of that.
                    You totally overlook that combatting climate change also is an opportunity.
                    Solar Cells and Wind Generators can turn into an industry ... the same goes for cars with Hybrid Engines, Fuel Cells or Electric Engines.

                    Investing in them is much more future proof than investing in coal or oil ... due to tax income from these industries, combatting climate change may actually be way cheaper than you think.

                    Of course you need a PotUS who actually thinks of the future for this and who doesn't just support outdated industries like coal mining and totally neglects the cleaner technologies
                    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Aeson View Post
                      The other area that woukd easily pay it is changes to healthcare. We can have better coverage at about 1/4th to 1/5th the cost either by nationalizing or applying antitrust laws against healthcare providers and drug manufacturers. That would save us something around $400bn a year.

                      We currently have the worst aspects of both socialism and privatization in our healthcare system.

                      Then all the millions of excess healthcare paper pushers can have jobs planting trees on their own regenerative homesteads that eventually would be profitable.
                      Our healthcare system is expensive but it's the best in the world. That's where you want to make cuts to save lives? You aren't just going to cut waste. You are going to cut services. It's impossible to do otherwise.
                      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

                        That's not the proper way to look at it. We need to look at it on an individual level because that's where the decision is made. We don't live under monarchy. We have to decide collectively what is best for us individually and what is best for our families. This is what decides elections and policies.
                        Obviously what's best for 99% of families is to tax the wealthiest 1% and use the money to transition to renewable energy so their children and grandchildren don't face catastrophic changes in the climate.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Proteus_MST View Post

                          You totally overlook that combatting climate change also is an opportunity.
                          Solar Cells and Wind Generators can turn into an industry ... the same goes for cars with Hybrid Engines, Fuel Cells or Electric Engines.

                          Investing in them is much more future proof than investing in coal or oil ... due to tax income from these industries, combatting climate change may actually be way cheaper than you think.

                          Of course you need a PotUS who actually thinks of the future for this and who doesn't just support outdated industries like coal mining and totally neglects the cleaner technologies
                          It's not really profit when you subsidize it. You are just taking money from someone and giving it to someone else. Then the communities that you took from are suffering. But you think you are preventing suffering! The truth is that with the economy we have right now we don't need to subsidize anything.
                          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

                            We're talking serious lives there. The US military maintains stability throughout the world. It serves as a deterrent to bad actors. Do you think Europe wants us to do that? Do you think Asia wants us to tell China that we are just going to let them take whatever they want?
                            Reducing the amount we spend on foreign wars will save lives. We would still have much more spending than China, Russia combined. Look at the trillions we spent in Iraq to achieve what? If we had spent that planting trees climate change wouldn’t even be an issue, and our standing in the international community would be much higher.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by giblets View Post

                              Obviously what's best for 99% of families is to tax the wealthiest 1% and use the money to transition to renewable energy so their children and grandchildren don't face catastrophic changes in the climate.
                              1) There aren't any catastrophic changes to climate coming. There are no models that forecast that. What we are talking about is a cost that can be managed and how much if anything we should spend to mitigate it. So please, don't waste time with fear mongering.

                              2) This tax the 1% doesn't work. The Europeans know that. Rich people don't have to pay your tax. They can take their money somewhere else. That's why the middle class in many European countries pays a large portion on taxes.
                              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

                                Our healthcare system is expensive but it's the best in the world. That's where you want to make cuts to save lives? You aren't just going to cut waste. You are going to cut services. It's impossible to do otherwise.
                                No, we can cut the waste either with a private or public healthcare system. Right now we combine the worst of both worlds, and do not have the best healthcare except for the very rich. Almost everyone else would be better off. The rich would still have the best healthcare money can buy.

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