Brexit divorce deal

[pchang]

Where are you getting your ideas about the EU? The EU ignoring the 3% budget deficit rules is a classic case of "Undemocratic Bureaucrats" acceding to the wishes of the democratically elected member states. You are trying to have it both ways. The real problem with the EU is that it lacks power. You need unanimous agreement among all member states in order to do anything real. This is why the Articles of Confederation failed. As for Brexit, the UK has finally found a way to unite the other EU member states while also voluntarily giving up its EU vote. No wonder why Putin supports Brexit. When you find yourself on the same side as Kid and Putin, you really should re-think your views and sources.

[Bereta_Eder]

You're both bambling and don't make any sense. Calm down. When you decide to actually decide to make a point I'd answer it as well. Just a minor note, pchang you're about as clueless of the EU as dinner. Did you really try to equatte the 3% ceiling on deficit with one of the 4 fundemental pillars of what actually constitutes the EU constitution? you're just showing your cluelesness. As for kid or putin? I'm paiktis, I'm from Greece

[Bereta_Eder]

Also you seem to erronseously believe that I share your idea of what Putin is, or England is, for our interests.

[Bereta_Eder]

let me make it plain for you. You have a law that you shouldn't cross the street when the light is red. You also have a law that says you shouldn't rob people. You are equating these two laws and say they are equally important for the function of a law abiding state and society. deficits can be reversed (hell Greece is a prime example we had 18% deficit, not just 3%). Restriction on movement cannot be "temporarily lifted" or "exempted". Variable geometry only functions ons some things. I know whta I said goes over your head, so just try to imagine the crossing the road with a red light and the robbing example. It would be easier for you.

[BlackCat]

Ireland says it doesn't want a border, the UK says it doesn't want a border... So it will be up to the EU to demand Ireland create a border. Which really shows the lie that there is nothing the EU can do because if there is a border it will be because the EU demands on and only because of that.

Sure, Ireland isn't comfortable with this, but they are part of the EU so they of course accept it. Anyway, UK could simply accept a hard border between NI and the rest of the UK and there wouldn't be any problems - for some stupid reasons the UK won't accept this simple solution.

[Bereta_Eder]

Ireland has the solid backing of 25 european countries against the UK. I don't think it EVER had more power than now vis a vis its neighbor. It can basically do whatever it likes. The UK is pretty much like dinner completely detached from reality which is repeadedly slapping it hard across the face. The EU isn't doing that. The UK is crumbling, it has political crisis after crisis. The EU hasn't even broken a sweat.

[Dinner]

It will be abundantly clear who created the land border when the UK doesn't bother to create customs posts but the EU does force Ireland to. Team that up with the EC demanding huge increases in money from members because under no deal the UK doesn't have to pay it anything, add in how pissed off the east is over the demands to accept fake refugees, and I'd say the EU is stumbling into yet another crisis.

Especially when economies start taking a hit all because the EC was too arrogant and incompetent. Hell, Trump wants to tariff the EU anyway so all May needs to do is convince Trump to continue with his own worst instincts and you'll see German industry ****ting its pants. In light of all that, yes, I do think the only two heads of state in the EU who matter (Germany anand France) will force the EC to change its tune.

[Bereta_Eder]

The EU is a gigantic conglomerate of 500 million people and the largest economy on the planet. If it coughs, you'd notice. The eastern states xenophobic governments are giving wway to more rational people seeing that as usualy xenophobia and stealing of the public's money go hand in hand. Immigration is not capable of shaking the EU, it just showcases its continued success. Furthermore, the moronic decistion of the mind addled UK to commit harakiri and become an isolated shunned pariah has a great job in solidifying support for the continuation of the EU project from the nordic and baltic sea to the eastern med.

[BlackCat]

It will be abundantly clear who created the land border when the UK doesn't bother to create customs posts but the EU does force Ireland to.

Are you seriously claiming that UK won't set up customs ? Hey, why are there customs posts between USA and Mexico ? Do you really believe that UK can say "we won't want to have custom points to EU" ???? What fantasy world do you live in ?

Team that up with the EC demanding huge increases in money from members because under no deal the UK doesn't have to pay it anything,

You are totally wrong - no matter whether its a soft or hard brexit, the UK can in no way deny to pay what they owe.

add in how pissed off the east is over the demands to accept fake refugees, and I'd say the EU is stumbling into yet another crisis.

Are you seriously claiming that all of these refugees automatically went to UK ?

Especially when economies start taking a hit all because the EC was too arrogant and incompetent. Hell, Trump wants to tariff the EU anyway so all May needs to do is convince Trump to continue with his own worst instincts and you'll see German industry ****ting its pants. In light of all that, yes, I do think the only two heads of state in the EU who matter (Germany anand France) will force the EC to change its tune.

You really have some special fantasies - do you really sincerely think that german industry will die if they don't have access to the UK Market ???? This is simply hilarious

[Dinner]

The EU is not United and has fault lines all over the place.

[BlackCat]

The EU is not United and has fault lines all over the place.

Of course EU isn't united - that is not the purpose of the union. We are not trying to force countries into one model as it happend in the US.

[Bereta_Eder]

Also dinner's "estimate" that "may will convince trump to impose tarrifs to the EU" because reasons and so the EU "will change its tune" constitutes a whole new level of alternative reality, practically unapprochable by sane people

[spambot]

Trump is a narcissist who doesn't listen to anyone besides Putin, there is no way May could talk him into bullying the EU for her

[BlackCat]

Also dinner's "estimate" that "may will convince trump to impose tarrifs to the EU" because reasons and so the EU "will change its tune" constitutes a whole new level of alternative reality, practically unapprochable by sane people

The real fun stuff is that Trumps tariffs on foreign steel and aluminium may hurt a bit, but the real pain are paid by the americans. What happend when price of foregin materials went went up ? Did the american producers just raise their production to respond to the new demand ? Well, yes, but it was at a price close to the price of foreign materials so what did the american car producers do ? They shut down factories because the price got too high - yay for Trumps trade war

[Dauphin]

Are you seriously claiming that UK won't set up customs ? Hey, why are there customs posts between USA and Mexico ? Do you really believe that UK can say "we won't want to have custom points to EU" ???? What fantasy world do you live in ?



You are totally wrong - no matter whether its a soft or hard brexit, the UK can in no way deny to pay what they owe.

The U.K. will call the EUs bluff. They will not put up a border check in NI. It just won’t happen.

Paliament won’t approve any payments to the EU either, without a quid pro quo.

These are two bargaining chips that the U.K. can play, and it will be up to the EU to decide if carrot or stick is the way to respond. I don’t think a stick will achieve anything in the current climate.