Gentle reminder for tomorrow

[Aeson]

So we are back to what is the alternative?

Clinton signed the Flores settlement making it legally binding to not hold minors with their parents, just to undermine that formerly standard policy. Illegal aliens have spent the last 20 years grossly abusing this settlement because they knew if they brought a minor with them they legally had to be released after just 20 days. It has become a flood and a complete f'ing joke.

So either end Flores so that the whole family can be held together and deported together or else seporating rhem becomes the only legal option besides just letting them all go free to break the law. It is obviously immoral to just let criminals go free so seporating them becomes the only legal option.

Flores could be changed but Dems refuse because they know the issue can be used as a weapon to pander to ignorant fools. I say call their bluff and carry it out.

Flores doesn’t require families to be separated... demonstrated very clearly in how the Trump administration has since changed their policy (though chomping at the bit to reimplement it)... nevermind that Rs control both houses, the Presidency, and SCOTUS. It’s obviously the Ds fault

Youll swallow anything if its anti-immigrant.

[Kidlicious]

The policy of family separation the Trump administration implemented and are considering reinstituting... Do you think it is just?

Absolutely. That's the law. The adults that come across the border have to be detained for breaking the law. That's the consequences. If you break the law you don't get detained with your children. Do you think they will be detained like that where they come from?

[Uncle Sparky]

That violates the Safe Third Country Agreement that that US is a signatory to... big surprise! AND WHY CAN I READ THIS KIDIOT'S POST?!?!

[Aeson]

Kids posts are illegally immigrating into your feed! Or maybe they are applying for amnesty?

[Aeson]

Absolutely. That's the law. The adults that come across the border have to be detained for breaking the law. That's the consequences. If you break the law you don't get detained with your children. Do you think they will be detained like that where they come from?

So it’s not a smear to say you think it’s just, it’s a verifiable fact. But you still called ot a smear.

As for them being detained where they came from, if that is true then they really are refugees.

[Kidlicious]

So it’s not a smear to say you think it’s just, it’s a verifiable fact. But you still called ot a smear.

As for them being detained where they came from, if that is true then they really are refugees.

Children are separated the same way all over the world. That's how common it is. That's why it's a smear. You do it to Republicans. It's political. Honestly I'm surprised Dinner is on this issue so much since Ds never get accused of child abuse like tbis.

[Aeson]

Ripped from their families and forcibly separated from their families are synonymous. In both cases they are forcibly being taken away. That you think one is a smear and the other is just clearly shows how absurd your mind works.

[Uncle Sparky]

Funny thing from Canadian coverage of the US election... both major Canuck stations mentioned the election of two Muslim women to congress... neither station mentioned there party affiliation(s).. no need right Kidiot?

[Dinner]

Flores doesn’t require families to be separated... demonstrated very clearly in how the Trump administration has since changed their policy (though chomping at the bit to reimplement it)... nevermind that Rs control both houses, the Presidency, and SCOTUS. It’s obviously the Ds fault

Youll swallow anything if its anti-immigrant.

Did you read? It doesn't look like you did. Dannubus said his alternative was to hold whole families together until they either get approved or rejected. I pointed out that was a great idea but the Flores settlement does not allow that. You then came in and claimed I said something entirely different so was that a mistake on your part or are you playing Kidiot's game of deliberately misstating what people said?

I have said that if the choice is the failed status quo or family seporations to deter false claims then I will take family seporations. The fraud rate is in excess of 80% so the status quo is not an option. At all.

[Dinner]

We also have a booming economy that’s way too top heavy ... and a demographics problem. Need more workers, not less.

That may well be so the responsible thing to do is advocate for legal immigration in a responsible system which looks a lot like Canada's or Australia's systems. Trying to enable illegal alien criminality is not responsible. We need to stop illegal immigration and have serious criminal and financial penalties for any company which hires them.

[Aeson]

You can stop the vast majority of illegal immigration by implementing a sane (ecomically and humanitarian) immigration policy that makes legal immigration possible for those who are willing to work. You don’t have to stop illegal immigration first via some hateful (family separation designed as a deterrent) or monumentally stupid (The Wall) method.

The illegal immigration that would not be stopped that way (outright criminals, human trafficking, smuggling, etc) would then be much easier to address without the mass of decent people being lumped together in with them.

[Dinner]

I would like to see some reform but never open borders. Having completely open borders not only allows criminal networks to flurish but it also depresses wages in most blue collar industries for the poor in America. It is basic supply and demand as even people like Cesar Chavez understood that. Chavez knew that his farm workers movement was doomed to fail in their attempt to get higher wages if employers could just refuse to pay higher wages and hire new still poorer workers from Mexico. Thus why the UFW placed such a high focus on ending the bracero program and preventing illegal immigration.

Name the blue collar industry (restaurant work, construction, meat packing, factory work, plumbing, etc...) and illegal immigration depresses both wages and wage growth. It also costs taxpayers huge for things like education, healthcare, and law enforcement. It is why the bottom 30% of the US population has seen incomes stagnate or decline since 1980. Yes, for employers and those not competing with this cheap labor pool it means more profits and lower prices but are we willing to sacrifice the futures of 1/3rd of the American people for that? Most Americans say no.

[Dinner]

You can stop the vast majority of illegal immigration by implementing a sane (ecomically and humanitarian) immigration policy that makes legal immigration possible for those who are willing to work. You don’t have to stop illegal immigration first via some hateful (family separation designed as a deterrent) or monumentally stupid (The Wall) method.

The illegal immigration that would not be stopped that way (outright criminals, human trafficking, smuggling, etc) would then be much easier to address without the mass of decent people being lumped together in with them.

Again, I do not see the status quo is a viable option as it had failed to the tune of 20 million illegal aliens. Republicans are at least offering a potential fix. What are Democrats offering to fix the problem? Until they do offer a viable alternative their opinion is worthless and I will take the only viable option.

Come up with a viable alternative and then we can talk. I do not think this is an unreasonable position to take.

[Aeson]

I would like to see some reform but never open borders. Having completely open borders not only allows criminal networks to flurish but it also depresses wages in most blue collar industries for the poor in America. It is basic supply and demand as even people like Cesar Chavez understood that. Chavez knew that his farm workers movement was doomed to fail in their attempt to get higher wages if employers could just refuse to pay higher wages and hire new still poorer workers from Mexico. Thus why the UFW placed such a high focus on ending the bracero program and preventing illegal immigration.

Name the blue collar industry (restaurant work, construction, meat packing, factory work, plumbing, etc...) and illegal immigration depresses both wages and wage growth. It also costs taxpayers huge for things like education, healthcare, and law enforcement. It is why the bottom 30% of the US population has seen incomes stagnate or decline since 1980. Yes, for employers and those not competing with this cheap labor pool it means more profits and lower prices but are we willing to sacrifice the futures of 1/3rd of the American people for that? Most Americans say no.

Well we definitely should use Venezuela as our model for how to create a robust and healthy economy.

Illegal immigrants cannot seek legal protection and thus are more easily forced into lower wages and worse working conditions. Making those workers legal increases wages and bring about better working conditions.

The current immigration system is designed to get illegals to work ****ty jobs for ****ty pay, depress wages, and to a smaller extent encourages businesses to ship jobs overseas.

[Dinner]

Well we definitely should use Venezuela as our model for how to create a robust and healthy economy.

Illegal immigrants cannot seek legal protection and thus are more easily forced into lower wages and worse working conditions. Making those workers legal increases wages and bring about better working conditions.

The current immigration system is designed to get illegals to work ****ty jobs for ****ty pay, depress wages, and to a smaller extent encourages businesses to ship jobs overseas.

A serious question: Are you stupid? That is the only response I have to anyone who thinks this is, in any way, remotely like Venezuela. Venezuela's main problems are price controls and nationalization of businesses, mostly as a weapon to oppress political opponents. That has exactly zero to do with controlling illegal alien migration so your response is less than I would expect from a two year old.

The solution to illegal alien criminals is to ruthlessly expel them and to brutally fine and imprison the cheaters who wish to emply them for economic advantage. Again, yes, I would like to see sensible and responsible immigration reform, focused mainly upon the educated and the wealthy with money to invest, as is done in both Canada and Australia, but your claim that open borders is the only alternative is utter hogwash.

To protect the earnings of lower class and less educated workers, mostly minorities and the downtrodden whom Dems claim to care about, immigration of poorly educated net takers needs to be restricted. Fact. Only then will we see the bottom 1/3rd of income earners see their incomes rise for the first time since 1980. I am all for educated people and people who agree to invest money being given free range.

You are babbling a lot of nonsense here.

[Aeson]

Again, I do not see the status quo is a viable option as it had failed to the tune of 20 million illegal aliens. Republicans are at least offering a potential fix. What are Democrats offering to fix the problem? Until they do offer a viable alternative their opinion is worthless and I will take the only viable option.

Come up with a viable alternative and then we can talk. I do not think this is an unreasonable position to take.

Rs have had both houses and the presidency and have enacted nothing. Ds weren't any better their last time in power. They are both complicit in the status quo, and both seem to prefer it. Splitting kids up from their families won't do diddly to fix things, it just harms the kids and their families.

The fix:

End the drug war, defund the cartels and gangs and private prisons, stop creating humanitarian crisis
End attempts to destabilise or overthrow foreign governments, stop creating humanitarian crisis
Amnesty and green cards for anyone already in the country who doesn't have a criminal record
End quotas, Nationality (or the ethnicity they are intented as a stand in for) doesn't determine if you're a good fit or not
Welfare reform, work programs, we have a lot of infrastructure to rebuild ... those "strong healthy young men" could be useful
Healthcare reform (as current system will eventually bankrupt the US with or without immigration factored in either way)

[Dinner]

I am still astounded how Aeson can remain so monumentally ignorant of the reasons why Venezuela is such a failure economically. No, it is not because so many people want to go to Venezuela, you ********, it is because everyone wants to leave Venezuela, you ignorant know nothing.

Far from having a problem with illegal immigration Venezuela has a problem with everyone who has the means to do do is fleeing the country. Especially the educated and well off.