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  • Big Bang or Big Bounce?

    Big Bang or Big Bounce? Stephen Hawking and Others Pen Angry Letter about How the Universe Began


    Stephen Hawking and 32 of his fellow scientists have written an angry letter responding to a recent Scientific American article about how the universe began. In it, they declare their “categorical disagreement” with several of the statements made, and explain why the theory of inflation is still one of the best models for the origin of the cosmos.

    The article in question was published in February. Titled “Pop Goes the Universe,” physicists Anna Ijjas, Paul J. Steinhardt, Abraham Loeb examine the latest measurements from the European Space Agency relating to cosmic microwave background (CMB).

    CMB is the oldest light in the universe—light emitted just after the Big Bang around 13.7 billion years ago. In 2013, a map of the CMB appeared to show how the universe inflated extremely fast, before settling down to become the universe we see today. This, many experts said, backed up models relating to inflation theories, where the universe expanded exponentially fast a fraction of a second after the Big Bang.


    However, Ijjas, Steinhardt and Loeb disagreed with this interpretation. “If anything, the Planck data disfavored the simplest inflation models and exacerbated long-standing foundational problems with the theory, providing new reasons to consider competing ideas about the origin and evolution of the universe,” they write.
    The three physicists argue that since the 2013 map was produced, more precise data has been gathered.

    And this data, they say, adds more evidence to the argument that the Big Bang and inflation do not adequately explain how the universe started. “Yet even now the cosmology community has not taken a cold, honest look at the big bang inflationary theory or paid significant attention to critics who question whether inflation happened,” they say.


    Instead, they claim the idea of a “big bounce” is a more likely scenario. In this theory, the universe works on a cyclical basis of expansion and contraction. At the moment, it is expanding. However, when it runs out of energy (or whatever happens to stop its expansion), it will start contracting. Eventually, it will get to the point where it is so small it starts expanding again.

    They point to several flaws in inflation theory, including that we are yet to discover primordial gravitational waves—ripples in spacetime created by the Big Bang. Another problem is that inflation requires the existence of “inflationary energy,” for which there is no direct evidence.

    “Given all these problems, the prospect that inflation did not occur deserves serious consideration,” they write. “Today we are fortunate to have sharp, fundamental questions imposed on us by observations. The fact that our leading ideas have not worked out is a historic opportunity for a theoretical breakthrough. Instead of closing the book on the early universe, we should recognize that cosmology is wide open.”



    Categorical disagreement

    Responding to the article, 33 scientists, including Hawking, have written a letter of response to Scientific American in which they dismantle the arguments made by Ijjas, Steinhardt and Loeb.

    In the letter, they say there is “no disputing” the fact that inflation is the dominant theory when it comes to cosmology. They point out that there are over 14,000 scientific papers by over 9,000 scientists relating to inflation: “By claiming that inflationary cosmology lies outside the scientific method, IS&L [the authors of the earlier article] are dismissing the research of not only all the authors of this letter but also that of a substantial contingent of the scientific community,” they write.


    “Moreover, as the work of several major, international collaborations has made clear, inflation is not only testable, but it has been subjected to a significant number of tests and so far has passed every one.”

    They say there are many models of inflation and no one believes they are all correct. Instead, the theory is something of a work in progress, where scientists are working to find one that fits all the experiments and observations.

    The scientists refer to a multitude of reasons why inflation is, at present, the best model for the origin of the universe. This includes there being testable models—including the observations from the 2013 CMB data.


    “Like any scientific theory, inflation need not address all conceivable questions. Inflationary models, like all scientific theories, rest on a set of assumptions, and to understand those assumptions we might need to appeal to some deeper theory,” they say. “

    This, however, does not undermine the success of inflationary models.” “No one claims that inflation has become certain; scientific theories don’t get proved the way mathematical theorems do, but as time passes, the successful ones become better and better established by improved experimental tests and theoretical advances.

    This has happened with inflation. Progress continues, supported by the enthusiastic efforts of many scientists who have chosen to participate in this vibrant branch of cosmology.”



    Disappointed response

    Ijjas, Steinhardt and Loeb responded to the letter with disappointment. They say they have “great respect for the scientists” who signed, but say they missed the key point of the article—how inflation theory has changed over time.

    “We firmly believe that in a healthy scientific community, respectful disagreement is possible and hence reject the suggestion that by pointing out problems, we are discarding the work of all of those who developed the theory of inflation and enabled precise measurements of the universe,” they write.

    Their main point, they said, is that “we should be talking about the contemporary version of inflation, warts and all, not some defunct relic.” They argue that even when different parameters are taken into account, there are an infinite number of outcomes relating to any model of inflation.


    Our article was not intended to revisit old debates but to discuss the implications of recent observations and to point out unresolved issues that present opportunities for a new generation of young cosmologists to make a lasting impact.

    We hope readers will go back and review our article’s concluding paragraphs. We advocated against invoking authority and for open recognition of the shortcomings of current concepts, a reinvigorated effort to resolve these problems and an open-minded exploration of diverse ideas that avoid them altogether.

    We stand by these principles.”

    http://www.newsweek.com/big-bang-ste...niverse-608104

    Formatting by me. (this thread is also a Lori trap )
    Blah

  • #2
    Pffft! This is how the universe started!
    I am not delusional! Now if you'll excuse me, i'm gonna go dance with the purple wombat who's playing show-tunes in my coffee cup!
    Rules are like Egg's. They're fun when thrown out the window!
    Difference is irrelevant when dosage is higher than recommended!

    Comment


    • #3
      I heard a while back there were fluctuations in the cosmic background radiation, some parts of the universe are warmer and some cooler. I interpreted that to mean inflation was uneven, but why? I think its because the universe is cyclical, big bang follows big crunch and so on. The variation we see resulted from the big bang inflating into a prior universe, material still falling inward to the singularity was ignited by the big bang causing differences in the amount of radiation we see today. Think of a 360 degree flamethrower hitting objects nearby, they're ignited and the amount of radiation is higher at those points.

      Comment


      • #4
        God lit a fart

        Comment


        • #5
          I thought there was not enough mass to area ratio in the iniverse to cause a big crunch where the universe starts to contract and eventually reform the singularity. I know there was some debate about the quantity of dark matter and exactly which role antimatter played but... By orders of magnitude the debate had been settled.
          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Berzerker View Post
            God lit a fart
            Burnt butt hair. That is what I remember about a friend farting on a candle on a dare. The smell of burt butt hair.
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

            Comment


            • #7
              We have zero evidence for repeated expansion/contraction, and it's not even clear to me how we would find evidence to show repeated expansion and contraction. Much of the worst work being done in cosmology is trying to find the 'missing' mass. The Hubble flow is direct evidence in favor of expansion, and until we have some evidence for the 'slowing down' of the universe I can't see how competing theories can step in.

              I'm also curious why they didn't cite the distribution of the universe as a challenge of the current inflationary theory. There is a tremendous amount that we don't know about the earliest stages of the universe.
              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

              Comment


              • #8
                I heard a while back there were fluctuations in the cosmic background radiation, some parts of the universe are warmer and some cooler. I interpreted that to mean inflation was uneven, but why? I think its because the universe is cyclical, big bang follows big crunch and so on. The variation we see resulted from the big bang inflating into a prior universe, material still falling inward to the singularity was ignited by the big bang causing differences in the amount of radiation we see today. Think of a 360 degree flamethrower hitting objects nearby, they're ignited and the amount of radiation is higher at those points.
                The problem is that a singularity cannot retain this information. If all the universe collapses into a singularity, then everything is compressed into an area that is without size. How could the information be transferred? Which raises the question as to why we see ripples in the CMB. That's one of the longest standing cosmological questions. We simply don't know how that occurred, and current theories don't offer an explanation.
                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                Comment


                • #9
                  The origin of life.
                  I am not delusional! Now if you'll excuse me, i'm gonna go dance with the purple wombat who's playing show-tunes in my coffee cup!
                  Rules are like Egg's. They're fun when thrown out the window!
                  Difference is irrelevant when dosage is higher than recommended!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post

                    The problem is that a singularity cannot retain this information. If all the universe collapses into a singularity, then everything is compressed into an area that is without size. How could the information be transferred? Which raises the question as to why we see ripples in the CMB. That's one of the longest standing cosmological questions. We simply don't know how that occurred, and current theories don't offer an explanation.
                    not everything from the prior universe collapsed into the singularity, thats why we see fluctuations showing an uneven inflation

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      But what would cause a singularity to explode? Everything we know about them suggests that stability increases with size -- big ones don't go bang, only the smallest (subatomic?) ones do.
                      No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        only so much pressure/density before the bounce, kinda like how a star implodes - gravity collapses the structure until material cant be compressed any more.

                        I dont know, I'm not a scientist

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Mad Monk View Post
                          But what would cause a singularity to explode? Everything we know about them suggests that stability increases with size -- big ones don't go bang, only the smallest (subatomic?) ones do.
                          As a US Air Force Colonel once said;
                          Originally posted by Col.Samantha Carter
                          The singularity is about to explode? Everything about that statement is wrong!
                          I am not delusional! Now if you'll excuse me, i'm gonna go dance with the purple wombat who's playing show-tunes in my coffee cup!
                          Rules are like Egg's. They're fun when thrown out the window!
                          Difference is irrelevant when dosage is higher than recommended!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Of course if it's the Bounce instand of the Bang they have to redo or at least rename the comedy tv show
                            Blah

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