Concept A easily expressible in language X, claim that language X speakers don't understand concept A

[Lorizael]

I am skeptical of claims that members of a particular culture don't get the idiosyncratic ideas of other cultures, especially when we seem to be able to talk about those ideas just fine. Relevant examples include: the East/West divide, with claims that us ignorant Westerners only understand time in a boring, linear way, whereas exotic and wise Easterners can see the cyclical nature of time. How much stock do you put in these apparently unbridgeable cultural gaps? Are they real, or just an exaggeration of what particular cultures focus on/value?

[BeBMan]

I have no idea what the OP is about

[Lorizael]

[BeBMan]

I don't believe per se in *un*bridgeable cultural gaps. Might get a helluva difficult in certain constellations tho. Esp. if not understanding results in value judgements hindering further understanding ("instead of A them's think B, so are too stupid to understand A, and probably evil in general or somesuch" when maybe they just disagree with/don't value A)

[Lorizael]

I want to add that it looks like I'm conflating language and culture here, but I think the language part is important. It seems obvious that in a language without words for A, talking about A is going to be hard. It then seems plausible that complex thought about A might be hard, but probably not impossible. I'm not going in for any kind of linguistic determinism, because languages evolve and add new concepts, and I don't think languages evolve spontaneously without input from the surrounding culture. Back to the original point, though: if the words are there, I don't see how you can argue that the thoughts aren't. But I am willing to hear evidence/arguments to the contrary.

[ZEE]

Trying to understand this thrade makes AAHZ's poor, small, tiny, little brain hurt.

[Ben Kenobi]

I would say yes. People talk all the time about how "these things don't matter", but in the end, they do matter, and yes there are some concepts that aren't well represented or understood. What usually happens is that people choose to keep or leave behind things if they are in a situation where you have a junction of two different cultures.

[Main_Brain]

Bah! If ancient Chinese medicine was so great how come they lived to the ripe age of 35..

[Lorizael]

Bah! If ancient Chinese medicine was so great how come they lived to the ripe age of 35..

Mean life expectancy in ancient-ish cultures was very low because of infant mortality, but survival to our version of old if you got past childhood was often quite likely.

[The Mad Monk]

Yep. Low life expectancy was built on big piles of little dead babies.

[Aeson]

Filipinos love buwad. This is unfathomable to me.

[Proteus_MST]

I would say that usually there should be ways to bring concepts into a lower level that could be described in the foreign language.

For example (with regards to modern vs. medieval cultures), equating atomic power with fire ... a plane with birds ... a coach with something liek a horse inside that drives it forwards ... or a computer with a mechanical thinker.

Of course with such an equalization the medieval culture would still be far from being proficient in modern technologies (like atomic physics) ... but at least you could convey them a crude grasp of the concepts (which could be the foundation to teaching them things in more and more detail)

I would think that this would also applicable to philosophical ideas and the like.

[The Mad Monk]

...and balut...?

[Dauphin]

I would say that usually there should be ways to bring concepts into a lower level that could be described in the foreign language.

For example (with regards to modern vs. medieval cultures), equating atomic power with fire ... a plane with birds ... a coach with something liek a horse inside that drives it forwards ... or a computer with a mechanical thinker.

Of course with such an equalization the medieval culture would still be far from being proficient in modern technologies (like atomic physics) ... but at least you could convey them a crude grasp of the concepts (which could be the foundation to teaching them things in more and more detail)

I would think that this would also applicable to philosophical ideas and the like.

I don't think you need a medieval society for the science point. People today are on the scale of understanding. Some can design and build a nuclear reactor, others can't tell the difference between fusion and fission.

I would argue that understanding of philosophical ideas is one of interest and exposure of individuals to it. Not an inherent clash of cultures at a societal level. It's why terms like Francophile, Anglophile, Sinophile etc exist, or why you get people telling you about exotic eastern techniques etc. They may be full of ****, or not, but I don't see why they can't comprehend what it is they claim to have an interest in. Most people who "don't get it" are either intellectually unable to, or just have no interest in learning or understanding it in sufficient detail.

[kentonio]

I am skeptical of claims that members of a particular culture don't get the idiosyncratic ideas of other cultures, especially when we seem to be able to talk about those ideas just fine. Relevant examples include: the East/West divide, with claims that us ignorant Westerners only understand time in a boring, linear way, whereas exotic and wise Easterners can see the cyclical nature of time. How much stock do you put in these apparently unbridgeable cultural gaps? Are they real, or just an exaggeration of what particular cultures focus on/value?

I think the gaps are very real, but they're not unbridgable per se. If you're not brought up in a culture where foreigners are all looked down on (Japan for instance) or a country where thinking long term is more natural than thinking about the short term (Japan again) or a country where embarrassing yourself in certain free time social situations but maintaining a cast iron aura of respectability in the workplace and most day to day social situations is required (yeah, that'll be Japan again) then understanding that culture in a way that it can actually seem natural to you is probably extremely difficult. We can describe those concepts in our own language but do we really understand what they represent, and the larger role they play in the overall culture?