Why are the betting markets...

[Elok]

WhoTF else agrees with you on here?

[Giancarlo]

WhoTF else agrees with you on here?

Cite some better examples, then I WILL ANSWER THAT.

You have given me no shred of doubt. Actually you have made my convictions stronger.

BTW, Ming alone is more credible than any of those posters.

[Giancarlo]

And what are you trying to do? Gather a few trolls and trying to make me feel bad for my backed viewpoints? **** you then.

[Elok]

No, I'm saying that, if a wide variety of people who ordinarily disagree with each other intensely--and most of the people cited do--all find your views eccentric, that should at least inspire some measure of self-doubt. Dinner is generally quite leftist but favors robust action against Islamists. Ken is conservative in the UK, leftish over here. C0ckney is outright socialist. Ellestar is . . . something Russian that doesn't really translate, but I assume it could be called conservative and/or nationalistic. BK is troglodytically SoCon. I'm about as moderate as America gets these days; I dislike both parties and have agreed with Dinner, Ken and C0ckney at various times. I have a grab-bag of positions on various issues. Thoth I don't really know super-well, but he doesn't seem terribly eccentric.

Basically, you've got the whole political spectrum on here thinking your opinions are unrealistic. Does that really not give you any pause for thought?

[Ming]

Just for the record...
I think Trump is a complete moron and wish the Repubs had nominated just about anybody else (Cruz was just as bad)
I think Hillary is a lying pond scum who I also don't trust to run this country. (Yes, she is better when it comes to the social issues)

That said. Dinner's post... "Hillary will likely narrowly win but the election is going to come down to Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida. Trump has to win all three in order to win and Hillary just has to win one of them." pretty much agree with what most political experts I respect are saying. Yes, they are also saying that a few traditional red states could go blue and that a few blue states could go red, but that's an advantage to Hillary because she has a stronger orginization and more money than Trump. While Trump will concentrate in his efforts in the three key swing states, Hillary will be able to expand her efforts beyond just those three into some of the other close states.
If she can pick up a few, it won't even be close.

It could end up a blow out if Trump continues to do even more stupid things, but frankly, he already has done some REALLY stupid things and his base his holding. Just how much more stupid can he look

However, if something else negative comes out about Hillary, she could be in trouble. BOTH CANDIDATES are at record levels of disapproval. Yeah, Trump is worse, but Hillary has her problems as well.

She is not the perfect candidate, and some Democrats are looking for excuses not to vote for her. The good news for her is that most of them hate Trump as well

So lets stop with all the name calling simply because people have different opinions. Frankly, I think it's too early to call at the moment. Let's see if yet another game changing event happens to either candidate.

In the end, the Dems have the advantage with our silly electoral system... but it's no lock at this point.

[Ben Kenobi]

If you have me, Dinner, Ken, Ellestar, BK, C0ckney, Thoth, and who knows how many other posters somehow all united against your opinion despite our vastly disparate worldviews, it should at least give you pause for thought.

Uh, actually - it's pretty much just me and Giancarlo in agreement

[Giancarlo]

No, I'm saying that, if a wide variety of people who ordinarily disagree with each other intensely--and most of the people cited do--all find your views eccentric, that should at least inspire some measure of self-doubt. Dinner is generally quite leftist but favors robust action against Islamists. Ken is conservative in the UK, leftish over here. C0ckney is outright socialist. Ellestar is . . . something Russian that doesn't really translate, but I assume it could be called conservative and/or nationalistic. BK is troglodytically SoCon. I'm about as moderate as America gets these days; I dislike both parties and have agreed with Dinner, Ken and C0ckney at various times. I have a grab-bag of positions on various issues. Thoth I don't really know super-well, but he doesn't seem terribly eccentric.

Basically, you've got the whole political spectrum on here thinking your opinions are unrealistic. Does that really not give you any pause for thought?

Um no. For this to work, you actually need to find people from different parts of the political spectrum. Right of center and right wing doesn't constitute the entire political spectrum. Not everybody sees things through the American looking glass as I see it.

There are millions in this world that agree with me. Many more millions than there are center right and right wing fanatics.

I'm not a grab-bag anything. I stand politically left because that is the only realistic, logical and well supported. There is no measure of self doubt. In fact, I find my views strengthened after this discourse. Dinner is right of center. He's not even close to being left wing.

Everyone you named is right of center or downright totally right wing.

Nothing I have said is unrealistic. Get a ****ing reality check please.

[Giancarlo]

It could end up a blow out if Trump continues to do even more stupid things, but frankly, he already has done some REALLY stupid things and his base his holding. Just how much more stupid can he look

I think his base will hold steady too... perhaps in the lower to mid 30s. He's even scaring some of his "maybe I'll support him" supporters away. So yea, he's already done.

As far as Hillary... I've already said I would have took Biden over her. Biden always spoke his mind... I still remember the way where he totally ripped apart Paul Ryan in the VP Debate in 2012.

[kentonio]

Um no. For this to work, you actually need to find people from different parts of the political spectrum. Right of center and right wing doesn't constitute the entire political spectrum. Not everybody sees things through the American looking glass as I see it.

There are millions in this world that agree with me. Many more millions than there are center right and right wing fanatics.

I'm not a grab-bag anything. I stand politically left because that is the only realistic, logical and well supported. There is no measure of self doubt. In fact, I find my views strengthened after this discourse. Dinner is right of center. He's not even close to being left wing.

Everyone you named is right of center or downright totally right wing.

Nothing I have said is unrealistic. Get a ****ing reality check please.

Ok, now you really have stumbled into delusional territory. Despite me previously being a conservative voter in the UK in more moderate times, I'd be considered extremely socially liberal (hell these days economically too in fairness) even in the UK, so in America practically a commie. c0ckney meanwhile is so far to the left economically, that you almost need to extend the political spectrum chart to make enough room for him. Let me put it this way, compared to c0ckney, you look like a frothing tea party clown if that helps put it into perspective a little.

[Giancarlo]

Ok, now you really have stumbled into delusional territory. Despite me previously being a conservative voter in the UK in more moderate times, I'd be considered extremely socially liberal (hell these days economically too in fairness) even in the UK, so in America practically a commie. c0ckney meanwhile is so far to the left economically, that you almost need to extend the political spectrum chart to make enough room for him. Let me put it this way, compared to c0ckney, you look like a frothing tea party clown if that helps put it into perspective a little.

So... you went from being conservative to being conservative-lite. That's incredibly awesome. What did you change about your views? Do you now accept same sex marriage only if it isn't done in your neighborhood? What else?

I'm not someone who lives by American viewpoints, and the UK has proven it's more conservative than it claims to be. If the UK was so left wing, it wouldn't have shot itself in the foot with the Brexit vote.

I don't operate under the American sphere and my economic views are far more to the left than your own or Cockney's. period. So GROW UP.

[kentonio]

So... you went from being conservative to being conservative-lite. That's incredibly awesome. What did you change about your views? Do you now accept same sex marriage only if it isn't done in your neighborhood? What else?

UK conservatism (until recently depressingly) is almost nothing like US conservatism. The entire political spectrum in the UK is WAY to the left of America. There's absolutely nothing unusual about someone being a feminist, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage athiest and a conservative in the UK.

I'm not someone who lives by American viewpoints, and the UK has proven it's more conservative than it claims to be. If the UK was so left wing, it wouldn't have shot itself in the foot with the Brexit vote.

Actually a huge swathe of the people who voted for Brexit are hardline Labour supporters who are much more left wing than you are.

I don't operate under the American sphere and my economic views are far more to the left than your own or Cockney's. period. So GROW UP.

You're an idiot. c0ckney would happily dismantle the entire capitalist system, so the idea that you're to the left of him is very dumb.

[Giancarlo]

UK conservatism (until recently depressingly) is almost nothing like US conservatism. The entire political spectrum in the UK is WAY to the left of America. There's absolutely nothing unusual about someone being a feminist, pro-choice athiest and a conservative in the UK.



Actually a huge swathe of the people who voted for Brexit are hardline Labour supporters who are much more left wing than you are.



You're an idiot. c0ckney would happily dismantle the entire capitalist system, so the idea that you're to the left of him is very dumb.

I don't operate by US politics, idiot. And the key word is "until recently depressingly"... seems like your country moved closer to US conservatism and the same fear tactics. Stay up-to-date please. Even by your own admission your country has taken a sharply right wing tilt.

Maybe if you could read my posts more carefully you would understand that. Perhaps you should take your head out of the sand.

Cockney is a reactionary and he isn't a real leftist. The UK is more right wing than the rest of Europe.

And how the **** do you know where I stand politically when I don't even get into my own economic view points? I assure you I'm far more left wing than the Labour Party (which is starting to look more like a centrist joke these days!).

[kentonio]

I don't operate by US politics, idiot. And the key word is "until recently depressingly"... seems like your country moved closer to US conservatism and the same fear tactics. Stay up-to-date please. Even by your own admission your country has taken a sharply right wing tilt.

No, the Conservative Party took a swing right, not the country. Unlike America when that happens in the UK, they still have to disguise most of what they try to achieve while claiming to be huge supporters of our universal healthcare system, the right of poor people to adequate welfare and a range of other things that would lose any US conservative his seat in a heartbeat. But of course you should already know that, given how you 'dont operate by US politics' and all..

Cockney is a reactionary and he isn't a real leftist. The UK is more right wing than the rest of Europe.

Just because you've abandoned your previous ideology and become a liberal convert doesn't mean you get to decide what left and right mean (although the similarity with a religion convert is quite striking). Just because in the US 'left' now generally means 'slightly right of centre moderate' doesn't make it so. You have never been hard left, and unless you decide to take another ideology shift into communism you never will be.

As for the UK vs the Rest of Europe, that's simply untrue. It's left of some and right of others.

And how the **** do you know where I stand politically when I don't even get into my own economic view points? I assure you I'm far more left wing than the Labour Party (which is starting to look more like a centrist joke these days!).

Because you've just described c0ckney as 'reactionary' and not 'a real leftist' when many in the old Labour party were far more in alignment with him than they are with the views you have shown so far. It's kind of ironic that you'd claim to be left of even New Labour though, when you're wildly supporting a US party that sits heavily to the right of them.

[Giancarlo]

No, the Conservative Party took a swing right, not the country. Unlike America when that happens in the UK, they still have to disguise most of what they try to achieve while claiming to be huge supporters of our universal healthcare system, the right of poor people to adequate welfare and a range of other things that would lose any US conservative his seat in a heartbeat. But of course you should already know that, given how you 'dont operate by US politics' and all..

Whole country took a swing rightward actually.

Brexit is NOT a left wing idea and its entire premise was based on xenophobia and fear. Trump is one of its biggest supporters. Awesome job agreeing with Trump. I hope that America doesn't **** up as royally as your country did.

Just because you've abandoned your previous ideology and become a liberal convert doesn't mean you get to decide what left and right mean (although the similarity with a religion convert is quite striking). Just because in the US 'left' now generally means 'slightly right of centre moderate' doesn't make it so. You have never been hard left, and unless you decide to take another ideology shift into communism you never will be.

Likewise to you. You are in no position to define where I stand, how far left I am or what I am politically. So perhaps you shouldn't be such a hypocrite?

Oh, I am definitely hard left. So try again. You are clueless as always, Mr. Conservative-lite.

Because you've just described c0ckney as 'reactionary' and not 'a real leftist' when many in the old Labour party were far more in alignment with him than they are with the views you have shown so far. It's kind of ironic that you'd claim to be left of even New Labour though, when you're wildly supporting a US party that sits heavily to the right of them.

UK politics, again, is more right wing than the rest of Europe and not as moderate or left wing as you want it to be.

[kentonio]

Brexit is NOT a left wing idea and its entire premise was based on xenophobia and fear.

Actually the main reason it passed was very similar to the reason the Democratic party don't win white male working class voters much anymore. A huge number of working class people experienced their economic position growing increasingly worse over many years while the party of the left became more and more distant and focused on social issues rather than economic ones. This combined with one of the UK's favourite political games over the last 30 years of 'Blame the EU for everything' meant that when it finally came to a vote things went terribly wrong.

Likewise to you. You are in no position to define where I stand, how far left I am or what I am politically. So perhaps you shouldn't be such a hypocrite?

You probably give away a lot more about where you stand than you think you do. Even your vocal support for Hillary (and the reasons you give) strongly limits the potential range of where you probably stand on the political spectrum.

Oh, I am definitely hard left. So try again. You are clueless as always, Mr. Conservative-lite.

Give me an example of a position you hold that could be described as 'hard left'.

UK politics, again, is more right wing than the rest of Europe and not as moderate or left wing as you want it to be.

Again, you're repeating something that is incorrect. We are to the left of some countries and to the right of others. If you genuinely don't know that, then try getting on a plane to Hungary sometime and report back on their practically fascist ruling party.