EU Referendum - La Deuxième Partie

[Bereta_Eder]

Nexit, Frexit or Italeave? British vote fires up EU's 'Outers'

They always were asking for it. nothing new

[Lorizael]

Kentonio threatened to [s]move to Canada[/s] naturalize to France if this carried through; I wonder if he'll carry through...

edit: NO STRIKETHROUGHS!? What kind of primitive backwater board is this???

You can do it like this.

edit: oops i was late

[BeBMan]

Test. +1

[Bereta_Eder]

canada

[DinoDoc]

[Dinner]

Meaning? It is quite obvious from a number of statements that noone intends to treat the UK lightly in the coming negotiations.

Where are you assuming weaknesses on part of the EU that should make it a worse situation for us than for them?

They pretty much are gping to have to as anti-EU sentiment is running high right now and not just in the UK. When you have 60% of Frenchmen disapproving of EU policy (which is the current number) then some type of change of course will be needed even if the elites in the EC want to stay the course. If some real democratic reforms can be made and flexibility added then I could see a second vote taking place where the UK stays. It would have to be based on the current two track Europe the French President has previously spoken about. Also if the arrogant ***** in the EC try to treat tge UK punitively I could see the US stepping in to restore balance and the last thing we need is a tit for tat teade war so compromise is ultimately what needs to carry the day.

[Bereta_Eder]

that is turning out better than heaven

[Bereta_Eder]

The US will do **** than shoot some blacks

coming to think about it that may actually have an adverse effect on the TTIP, which is very good

[Bereta_Eder]

brexit I mean, not shooting blacks

[regexcellent]

I think a lot of them legitimately are competing with immigrants for labor, in the US at least. If you're dirt-poor and have no job skills beyond day labor, you're going to be kind of PO'ed if there are a lot of foreigners snatching up all the work and keeping wages low. It's kind of pathetic that such a large hunk of the population is so unskilled that it can't compete with third-worlders who barely speak English, but there it is. Moreover, if you're dependent on welfare--as many of these same people are--every new arrival shrinks your piece of the already-much-shared pie. There's only so much in the budget to be divvied out, after all.

I think much of the rest is generalized, inchoate anxiety about the future and the shape of society. Where the line is between that and just flat-out racism, well, that's a judgment call. Of course some of it is racism; we'd be fools to suggest no racism in such an emotional issue.

Finally, at this point I think a lot of conservative identity, like liberal identity, has been reduced to tribalism for its own sake. That is, conservatives loathe liberals, and vice-versa, purely for belonging to the opposite group, with specific positions and beliefs mattering much less than the other guys being condescending organic-market shopping elitists or mouthbreathing inbred trash, respectively.

Mexican immigrants, particularly illegal ones, don't compete with native born Americans who have at least a high school diploma as a practical matter.

Anecdotally, I've observed a lot of anxiety about the idea of people here speaking Spanish. Language rather than race seems to be more a factor for xenophobia. It's of course ridiculous; their children will speak English. And culturally, Mexican immigrants are a lot more similar to rural Americans than they are to urban liberals.

I used to believe that the racism issue was a more or less resolved one until Donald Trump started picking up support. Liberals have been spending forever castigating this or that conservative as being racist for decades, and it's mostly hogwash, but every once in a while when they cry wolf there actually is a wolf.

[Gatekeeper]

Hmm. It sounds like Northern Ireland's leaders are joining Scotland's leaders in eventually seeking a vote to break away from the "United" Kingdom, proper.

[Dinner]

Reg made the statement: "I just don't get why people hate immigrants so much, especially "conservatives.""

Do you have a better answer?

Right now wages for the bottom half have not recovered from the 2008 economic crisis and people are pissed off about their wages being lower. There is also less job security. Local taxes have also had to go up due to so many immigrants seeking services but, judging by the news reports, it isn't really immigrants themselves which are pissing people off but perceived abuse of the welfare system. I. E. never working at all but coming over and signing up for a council house and dole benefits without ever paying in thus stressing local services and resulting in native born poor not being able to get access to council housing. It is a classic competition for limited resources not real racism.

A reasonable compromise, which some German politicians have even supported, would have been to require new comers to gain residency by working full time for a year prior to gaining access to social services but Junkers & Co refused to even talk about the issue. This perceived arrogance and lack of democratic accountability to the will of the people really upset a lot of folks.

That is just one example but the reality is if the European Commission had shown even the slightest bit of flexibility I doubt exit would have won. Cameron got crucified by the press when his much publicized attempt to get the UK a better deal resulted in absolutely nothing largely because Junkers was a complete arrogant, short sighted **** who was so stupid he didn't see his actions were actually harming the union itself.

[Bereta_Eder]

bull****. immigration wasn't even an issue.

correct about the democratic deficit though. Been saying it since day one

to the will of the people

communist

[Bereta_Eder]

the brits needed to act logically and with cold detachment like the orthological greeks.

unfortunately their weather conditions condemn them to spasmodic childish bursts, the ones dinner likes and now you have this

alas

temperamental people

[Lorizael]

I used to believe that the racism issue was a more or less resolved one until Donald Trump started picking up support. Liberals have been spending forever castigating this or that conservative as being racist for decades, and it's mostly hogwash, but every once in a while when they cry wolf there actually is a wolf.

The wolves have been here all along. While they are a minority, one of the two major parties in America has no qualms about courting them.