Who do you think is the worse Christian?

[Kidlicious]

If your goal in life is to act like an ******* then I doubt that anything can dissuade you from that path. How has that been working out for you so far, though?

Where does it say in Bible to act like an *******?

[loinburger]

You act like an ******* and laugh in the face of everybody who suggests that you should stop acting like an *******, so your version of the bible evidently has a "thou shalt act like an *******" commandment in it

[Kidlicious]

You act like an ******* and laugh in the face of everybody who suggests that you should stop acting like an *******, so your version of the bible evidently has a "thou shalt act like an *******" commandment in it

Do you know what a moral standard is?

[Aeson]

Nope. Guilt is, by definition, the feeling that one experiences when they violate their own moral principles.

It is a feeling that you have violated your own principles. It doesn't mean you have done so. It can be triggered in cases where you have done nothing you would consider wrong, simply by having the wrong balance of chemicals in your brain.

[loinburger]

Do you know what a moral standard is?

Yes. I believe that it is immoral to act like an ******* as you are causing harm to others and failing to bring joy to those who you love. You evidently think that it's not only acceptable to be an ******* but that god will reward you for acting like an *******. How has that been working out for you so far?

[Kidlicious]

It is a feeling that you have violated your own principles. It doesn't mean you have done so. It can be triggered in cases where you have done nothing you would consider wrong, simply by having the wrong balance of chemicals in your brain.

First, I'm not talking about people who are having mental difficulties do to chemical imbalances. I'm talking about normally functioning people. Second, the fact that they are having problems feeling too much guilt does not mean that they do not have moral standards. Third, you're admitting that they have moral standards.

[Kidlicious]

Yes. I believe that it is immoral to act like an ******* as you are causing harm to others and failing to bring joy to those who you love. You evidently think that it's not only acceptable to be an ******* but that god will reward you for acting like an *******. How has that been working out for you so far?

If I believed that it were ok to be an ******* then I wouldn't believe in moral standards. If I didn't believe in moral standards then why would I be making this argument?

[loinburger]

If I believed that it were ok to be an ******* then I wouldn't believe in moral standards.

No, you would believe in ****ed up moral standards that are harming yourself and others. I'm trying to determine if you act like an ******* because you believe that it is your moral duty to act like an *******, or because you believe that it is immoral to act like an ******* but are too weak to resist the temptation to do so, or because you're a sociopath.

[Aeson]

First, I'm not talking about people who are having mental difficulties do to chemical imbalances. I'm talking about normally functioning people.

You are talking about yourself and me. So obviously you're lying.

Third, you're admitting that they have moral standards.

Of course people have moral standards. No one is arguing against that strawman you're parading around.

What we are arguing against is how you're conflating "moral standards" with "moral standards founded on a belief in God". The reality is that moral standards could be based on absolutely anything that a person accepts as authoritative ... whether it's an imaginary being they've never spoken to, or general utility, self-interest, the way the vitals pour out of the abdomen of a chicken, or anything else.

[Kidlicious]

No, you would believe in ****ed up moral standards that are harming yourself and others. I'm trying to determine if you act like an ******* because you believe that it is your moral duty to act like an *******, or because you believe that it is immoral to act like an ******* but are too weak to resist the temptation to do so, or because you're a sociopath.

What you're actually saying is that...
A) You believe in moral standards, and
B) You believe that my moral standards are absolutely wrong

What's wrong with this picture? I'm the moral absolutist, but you're the one who is arguing for moral absolutism. How can moral absolutes exist, if God does not exist?

[Kidlicious]

You are talking about yourself and me. So obviously you're lying.

What???

Of course people have moral standards. No one is arguing against that strawman you're parading around.

But you're going on and on about things that have nothing to do with having moral standards, which is at the heart of the issue.

What we are arguing against is how you're conflating "moral standards" with "moral standards founded on a belief in God".

Then why have you been talking about things like self-pity?

The reality is that moral standards could be based on absolutely anything that a person accepts as authoritative ... whether it's an imaginary being they've never spoken to, or general utility, self-interest, the way the vitals pour out of the abdomen of a chicken, or anything else.

But you have to have a reason to believe in a cause for your guilt. If it's just that you think that you are capable of creating moral truths then you need to have some reason for that. I say that if you don't have any reason for that then you are insane. Likewise, if you believe that anything else besides God has anything to do with moral truths.

[Aeson]

What???

You were talking about our beliefs and why we feel guilt. So you were talking about both of us. I'm sure one of us, and very likely both of us are chemically imbalanced. So your claim that you aren't talking about those who are chemically imbalanced is obviously false.

Then why have you been talking about things like self-pity?

I haven't talked about self-pity. Self-pity is something different than guilt. I have talked about guilt. You are the one who has mentioned self-pity.

But you have to have a reason to believe in a cause for your guilt.

No you don't. You can feel guilt simply because of the wrong balance of chemicals in your brain. Guilt is a feeling. It's not an intellectual realization, though it can be sparked by such, or spark such.

If it's just that you think that you are capable of creating moral truths then you need to have some reason for that. I say that if you don't have any reason for that then you are insane. Likewise, if you believe that anything else besides God has anything to do with moral truths.

Now you are conflating "moral standards" with "moral truths". A moral standard doesn't necessarily have to be a moral truth ... as well demonstrated by mutually opposed moral standards. They can't both be true ... but they are still both moral standards.

[loinburger]

What you're actually saying is that...
A) You believe in moral standards, and
B) You believe that my moral standards are absolutely wrong

What's wrong with this picture? I'm the moral absolutist, but you're the one who is arguing for moral absolutism. How can moral absolutes exist, if God does not exist?

What a load of horse**** - only in ethics can somebody be criticized for failing to cave in to everybody else's whims.

"I believe that the Chicago Bulls are the best sports team."
"Well I believe that the Chicago Bears are the best sports team, but alas I am not allowed to disagree with your opinion without also stating that God roots for the Bears "

I've asked you several times now - how are your moral standards working out for you? Have you alienated everybody who was once close to you by acting like a complete *******? If you have, then maybe you should get a better set of moral standards that will help you to stop acting like a complete *******!!! If you're content with being universally loathed, then more power to you (although I sincerely hope that you don't ruin anybody else's life before finally self-destructing)!!!!!

[-Jrabbit]

You can only feel guilty for violating moral principles.

I call bullsh1t. Here's a real-life example:

My Mom is 88 and is not mobile. I promised her I would pick up some toilet paper on my way to visit her for dinner.
Several hours later, I drove over to visit, but forgot to stop for the TP.
It hit me as I got out of the car, but it was too late to turn back.

I was hit by an immediate wave of guilt that I had disappointed my mother.

Yet I had done nothing wrong, committed no sin, violatated no laws, breached no ethical or moral standards.

I just forgot. Still, I felt guilt.

[rah]

I hope Kid doesn't try to claim that JR's guilt is proof that god exists.