So I opened the Koran for the first time and the first verse I read was...

[NICE MOBIUS]

I was very disappointed to see this.

Mobius was being so nice for so long, and then ............ this.

When it comes to dealing with Kid, that is being nice

[Kidlicious]

When it comes to dealing with Kid, that is being nice

You mean when it comes to defending any enemy of Christianity even if they support abuse of women.

[Elok]

The author of the Koran was illiterate, and the actual book was written down after he died, IIRC. He came up with the verses over a long period of time (over twenty years?) so he started with a relatively small number of verses and as he had more hallucinations over the years he gradually added more to it, and his associates memorized all of the verses. Once he claimed something was a divine revelation, he couldn't exactly edit it out even if new verses rendered it redundant, so the koran is kind of repetitive. Joseph Smith's work was much better organized.

I'm reluctant to simply declare Muhammad's "revelations" hallucinations. There are basically two possibilities (assuming you, as a skeptic, rule out divine or demonic visitation): either he had a protracted series of disturbing hallucinations in beautifully composed Arabic verse, which left his considerable abilities as a diplomat, chieftain and general untouched, or else he made the whole damn thing up himself and had everyone who knew him fooled. Both sound improbable, and I don't think we have enough evidence to rule one way or another. Doesn't much matter, I guess, since both interpretations add up to "he made it up."

I do feel comfortable saying that the substance of the verses (I can't speak for their poetic merits, not being literate in Arabic) could easily have been made up by an illiterate merchant with a broad but superficial understanding of Jewish and Christian religion. He might have made a conscious choice to bastardize both with a gloss of Arabic pagan customs, or brewed them up in his subconscious under the guise of spiritual revelations. Who knows?

[Ming]

You mean when it comes to defending any enemy of Christianity even if they support abuse of women.

Well... you defend a religion that treats women like second class citizens and has killed tons of people in the name of that religion.

[Kidlicious]

Well... you defend a religion that treats women like second class citizens and has killed tons of people in the name of that religion.

There you go again. Wars are going to be fought. There's nothing special about any ideology, secular or religious, that it can prevent wars from being fought in it's name. You know that, yet you continue on doing this.

[rah]

How about treating women as second class citizens. Not every religion does that.

[Kidlicious]

How about treating women as second class citizens. Not every religion does that.

No one is forcing women to be Christian. Your argument is feminist, so I can't really get into an extended argument about that on this webpage.

[Ming]

There you go again. Wars are going to be fought. There's nothing special about any ideology, secular or religious, that it can prevent wars from being fought in it's name. You know that, yet you continue on doing this.

No one is forcing women to be Christian. Your argument is feminist, so I can't really get into an extended argument about that on this webpage.

Blah blah blah... not really addressing the questions... You support a religion that has killed many in it's name... kind of similar to what the terrorists are doing now and that you are against. Plus, you support a religion that treats over half the world's population as second class citizens. And those lame ass posts are the best you can do. Pathetic.

[NICE MOBIUS]

You mean when it comes to defending any enemy of Christianity even if they support abuse of women.

I just proved to you that Islam follows the same god as Christianity, which you've ignored after trying to pretend they're different gods!

In effect you're condemning Islam for putting in writing a command from your OWN god. In all my time on poly, it has to be one of the most embarrassing arguments I've seen and yet you're too ****ing stupid to even understand why you should be embarrassed for spewing your total ****ing misogyny...

You're actually worse than Ben because you don't even care how stupid you look when your arguments backfire so embarrassingly badly...

Seriously, whose DL are you?

[Kidlicious]

I've never seen someone use nothing but logical fallacies and be so serious about declaring certain victory. You surely are a special person Nice Mobius.

[giblets]

No one is forcing women to be Christian. Your argument is feminist, so I can't really get into an extended argument about that on this webpage.

So Christian men are terrible husbands... and your excuse is no one is forced to marry them

[Kidlicious]

So Christian men are terrible husbands... and your excuse is no one is forced to marry them

I'm pretty sure women disagree with your bigotry.

[giblets]

I'm pretty sure women disagree with your bigotry.

Sadly, some women think being treated like a slave by their husband is acceptable.

[NICE MOBIUS]

I've never seen someone use nothing but logical fallacies and be so serious about declaring certain victory. You surely are a special person Nice Mobius.

Um, you're the one using them so liberally...

You attack Islam because the Quran says that god commands husbands to beat their unruly wives.

The problem for you is that the Islamic god is the same as the Christian god - therefore your god wants husbands to beat their unruly wives!

Ergo you are accusing another religion of the very thing your religion is guilty of following!!!

And that, my dear Kid, is Logical Logic.

AKA, when not a single other poster - not even Ben - agrees with you, it's time to quit while you're behind...

[Kidlicious]

Sadly, some women think being treated like a slave by their husband is acceptable.

So you think being head of the household is being a slave owner? Most women are head of the household because they have more power. The only difference is Christian women don't want to be the boss, and don't use their power.