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The "Life under our new Tory overlords" thread

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  • The "Life under our new Tory overlords" thread

    First let's look at freedom of speech-

    David Cameron is to set out a string of new powers to tackle radicalisation, saying the UK has been a "passively tolerant society" for too long.
    The PM will tell the National Security Council a counter-extremism bill will be in the Queen's Speech on 27 May.
    The bill will include new immigration rules, powers to close down premises used by extremists and "extremism disruption orders".
    Mr Cameron will say a "poisonous" extremist ideology must be confronted.
    In other political news;
    Labour's National Executive Committee will meet to draw up a timetable to elect a new party leader
    Theresa May has suggested economic migrants rescued from the Mediterranean while trying to reach Europe should be returned home
    Secret letters sent by the Prince of Wales to Labour government ministers a decade ago will be published
    You can follow the latest news on our live page
    The proposals were first set out by Home Secretary Theresa May before the general election.
    But the Conservatives were unable to secure the backing of their then Liberal Democrat coalition partners for the measures.
    There is likely to be some opposition in the new Parliament on the grounds that some of the plans could infringe people's right to free speech, BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said.
    Court review
    The measures are also expected to introduce banning orders for extremist organisations who use hate speech in public places, but whose activities fall short of it being proscribed as a terror group.
    The banning orders and extremism disruption orders will work in a similar way to ASBOs, with police having to go to the courts to obtain them, a Downing Street spokesman said.
    line
    Analysis: BBC home editor Mark Easton
    Under the proposals, ministers would be able to silence any group or individual they believe is undermining democracy or the British values of tolerance and mutual respect.
    One can understand a government's determination to prevent extremism that might lead to radicalisation and terrorism. But where to draw the line? And indeed, how do we draw up a definition?
    There is, it seems to me, an inherent contradiction between banning orders and the core British value that one should be tolerant of different viewpoints.
    History tells us that the development of new ideas of governance and government require people to think radically. Extreme views are necessary to test the wisdom of the mainstream.
    Would those who oppose homosexuality or multiculturalism or feminism be accused of threatening values of tolerance and equality? Could Russell Brand's argument against voting be regarded as threatening democracy?
    Read more from Mark Easton here.
    line
    The home secretary is also looking at the possibility of tightening asylum rules for those who express extremist views, he added.
    Extremism is defined in the government's prevent strategy as "vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs. In addition, calling for the deaths of members of the armed forces".
    'Bigger picture''
    Theresa May told BBC Radio 4 Today the government wants to "bring people together to ensure we are living together as one society".
    She said: "What we are proposing is a bill which will have certain measures within it, measures such as introducing banning orders for groups and disruption orders for individuals, for those who are out there actively trying to promote this hatred and intolerance which can lead to division in our society and undermines our British values.
    "But it will be part of a bigger picture , a strategy which will also have as a key part of it actually promoting our British values, our values of democracy, rule of law, tolerance and acceptance of different faiths."
    The measures, she added, will focus on "extremism of all sorts... that is seeking to promote hatred, that is seeking to divide our society, that is seeking to undermine the very values that make us a great country to live in".
    Extreme disruption
    According to details given by Mrs May at last year's Conservative Party conference, such orders would apply if ministers "reasonably believe" a group intended to incite religious or racial hatred, to threaten democracy, or if there was a pressing need to protect the public from harm, either from a risk of violence, public disorder, harassment or other criminal acts.
    The granting of a ban, which would be subject to immediate review by the High Court, would make membership or funding of the organisation concerned a criminal offence.
    The extreme disruption orders could be imposed on individuals, using the same criteria.
    BBC home affairs correspondent Dominic Casciani
    Policymakers have debated the definition of extremism ever since Tony Blair's government looked at new laws after the 7/7 Tube and bus attacks in London a decade ago.
    There are, potentially, two key challenges for the government in creating anti-extremism laws and tools.
    First, can a definition of extremism that leads to someone facing restrictions, such as a ban on using social media, withstand legal challenges - particularly on human rights grounds?
    Secondly can such bans work in practical terms without tying up the resources of the security services.
    MI5, for instance, already has triage-like systems to prioritise watching the most dangerous people: it can't monitor everyone with dangerous views.
    That aside, this package of measures is part of a potentially significant shift in focus.
    Ministers want tools to marginalise, restrict and silence these voices because disrupting their influence may buy time to intervene and bring someone back from the edge before it's too late.
    Read more from Dominic
    line
    Under the government's plans, the Charity Commission will be given more power to "root out charities who misappropriate funds towards extremism and terrorism", and broadcast regulator Ofcom will be able to take action against channels broadcasting extremist content.
    The terror threat level was raised from substantial to severe last August in response to the conflict in Syria and Iraq.
    Ministers responded by introducing new orders that can block British fighters from returning to the UK and give police the power to seize the passports of people suspected of plotting to join the fighting abroad.
    Mrs May will tell the National Security Council - which meets weekly and is chaired by the prime minister - that the government will empower institutions to "challenge bigotry and ignorance".
    Mr Cameron will say the new powers will make it harder for people to promote extremist views.
    "For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'," he will say.
    "It's often meant we have stood neutral between different values. And that's helped foster a narrative of extremism and grievance."
    Civil liberties
    The Conservative government will "conclusively turn the page on this failed approach," he will add, saying the UK must confront "head-on the poisonous Islamist extremist ideology".
    Jonathan Russell from the Quilliam Foundation think tank, which challenges extremism, said the measures would tackle symptoms, not causes.
    He told Today there was a danger of "negatively" altering the balance between national security and civil liberties.
    And on the government's plans, he added: "I don't think it will tackle radicalisation. I don't think it will change the numbers of people who are attracted to this poisonous ideology. And I don't think it will attack the ideology itself."
    Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman Tim Farron said much of what is being proposed is too "woolly":
    He added: "Somebody making a speech, which is critical of somebody else's point of view, is that a hate speech? There is no clarity on this."
    David Cameron is to set out new powers aimed at tackling radicalisation, saying the UK has been a "passively tolerant society" for too long.
    The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

  • #2
    I am sure things are not as bad as some right wing sources have made out but it does sound like the UK has a muslim extremist problem. I am not sure if these are the right measures but some form of measures clearly are needed.
    Last edited by Dinner; May 15, 2015, 11:12.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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    • #3
      If you are calling for the death of British soldiers and members of the British government then it should be a no brainer that these people should be rejected when they apply to move to Great Britain.
      Last edited by Dinner; May 15, 2015, 11:12.
      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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      • #4
        Do people still call the capital Londonistan?
        “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

        ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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        • #5
          I think it's pretty nice having a written constitution that explicitly forbids restrictions on speech.
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          ){ :|:& };:

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          • #6
            is there life in the UK? I thought all the best people left already
            Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

            Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

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            • #7
              Life? Yes. Intelligence? ...
              No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

              Comment


              • #8
                You saying that Laz isn't intelligent?

                Anyway, just another example of using scare tactics to serve the ruling class, usually conservative parties excell at it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dinner View Post
                  I am sure things are not as bad as some right wing sources have made out but it does sound like the UK has a muslim extremist problem. I am not sure if these are the righteases but some form of measures clearly are needed.
                  Racist dumbasd
                  To us, it is the BEAST.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                    I think it's pretty nice having a written constitution that explicitly forbids restrictions on speech inside the country.
                    FTFY
                    Indifference is Bliss

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                    • #11
                      Racist dumbasd
                      Yes, yes, because killing Christians is perfectly a-OK.
                      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                      2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Alexander's Horse View Post
                        is there life in the UK? I thought all the best people left already
                        "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                        "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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                        • #13
                          word

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bereta_Eder View Post
                            You saying that Laz isn't intelligent?

                            Anyway, just another example of using scare tactics to serve the ruling class, usually conservative parties excell at it.
                            it will be the latest in a long line of 'anti-terrorist' legislation published in the firm belief that the way to protect 'freedom' is to take away freedoms. of course this kind of thing has a long history, considering the measures taken against the IRA and their ilk, but most of this had been/was being dismantled until the 'threat' of islamic terrorism emerged and meant that this enormous list of legislation was passed to keep people cowed and fearful, err i mean to protect them.

                            The Terrorism Act 2000
                            The Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001
                            The Criminal Justice Act 2003
                            The Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 (Continuance in force of sections 21 to 23) Order 2003
                            The Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005
                            The Terrorism Act 2006
                            The Counter-Terrorism Act 2008
                            The Coroners and Justice Act 2009
                            The Terrorism (United Nations Measures) Order 2009
                            The Terrorist Asset-Freezing (Temporary Provisions) Act 2010
                            at this rate the UK may well soon have more 21st century anti-terrorism measures than actual deaths from terrorism.
                            "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                            "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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                            • #15
                              Are the "Terrorism Act" and "Terrorism Order" the contras of the "Counter-Terrorism Act" and the "Anti-Terrorism Act". Sounds like they can't decide if they are for or against terrorism. Guess it depends on the terrorist group.
                              One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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