What conspiracy theories and pseudoscience did you used to believe in?

[kentonio]

Oh and here's a guy successfully taking a case through a US court. But what is the defense? Funnily enough, it would appear that the governments defense lay in trying to show Agent Orange hadn't been at that particular site, not the somewhat more obvious defense they could have used that Agent Orange didn't caused cancer.

Except they couldn't of course, BECAUSE EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WHO ISN'T A ****ING ****** ACCEPTS THAT IT CAUSES ****ING CANCER.

You tw@t.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/communit...re-in-okinawa/

[Dauphin]

UK banks payout PPI claims to people who never had PPI. It's cheaper to pay than to investigate and litigate. Given the amount per person that 1984 payout equates to.

[regexcellent]

Oh yes, because the American legal system, juries in particular, make decisions based on solid science rather than sob stories and politics.

A settlement in a civil suit in federal court does not amount to scientific evidence in favor of Agent Orange causing cancer.

[Cort Haus]

Nice to see you posting more again, CH

Nice to see you too, Sava. Is this place still primarily a dick-waving fest, or has it changed? What have I missed over the last few years?

[regexcellent]

You missed a 10,000 post thread about the Russian invasion of Ukraine, about half of which was Serb and Ellestar calling people Nazis.

[Cort Haus]

Ah. I'm sure my old pal Serb had more to say than that. I expect he mentioned Western meddling in the overthrow of a legitimate, democratically-elected government by a coalition of forces that included some very unsavoury elements. While western media gave a one-sided account on proceedings which drew on Russophobia and old, cold-war sentiments,

Not that I wish to see this thread distracted by this subject. Unless we were to consider possible conspiracies for the NATO encirclement of Russia.

[Bereta_Eder]

Cort Haus in the house

On topic, I liked the idea that aliens had built the pyramids but never really believed it unfortunately.

[Hauldren Collider]

Hi CH! Welcome back

[kentonio]

UK banks payout PPI claims to people who never had PPI. It's cheaper to pay than to investigate and litigate. Given the amount per person that 1984 payout equates to.

Look, the Agent Orange/Dioxins thing isn't under debate. The only people claiming it isn't harmful are ****ing nutjobs, and the ****** twins here. Not only is it utterly stupid but it's also grossly offensive to the large numbers of people who died horrible deaths for no reason other than the chemical companies and the US military didn't take care of the people they were supposed to protect. The only reason Reg yaps about it is because he read a self published book by an idiot who he chose to believe. HC has now jumped on the same bandwagon (go Kucibros!).

Here's what the sane world has to say about it..

Institute of Medicine

Since 1994, the federal government has directed the Institute of Medicine (IOM), part of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), to issue reports every 2 years on the health effects of Agent Orange and similar herbicides. Titled Veterans and Agent Orange, the IOM reports assess the risk of both cancer and non-cancer health effects. Each health effect is categorized as having one of the following:

Sufficient evidence of an association
Limited/suggestive evidence of an association
Inadequate/insufficient evidence to determine whether an association exists
Limited/suggestive evidence of no association

This framework provides a basis for government policy decisions in the face of uncertainty. As of the most recent update (2012), the links between Agent Orange exposure and cancer were designated as shown. (Note that this table shows only cancers. Other health effects are listed in the next section.)

IOM: Links Between Herbicides (Including Agent Orange) and Cancer

Sufficient evidence of an association

Soft tissue sarcoma
Non-Hodgkin lymphoma (NHL)
Hodgkin disease
Chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL), including hairy cell leukemia and other chronic B-cell leukemias

Limited/suggestive evidence of an association

Respiratory cancers (lung, trachea, bronchus, larynx)
Prostate cancer
Multiple myeloma

Inadequate/insufficient evidence to determine whether an association exists

Mouth, throat, and sinus cancers
Gastrointestinal cancers (esophagus, stomach, pancreas, colon, rectum)
Liver, gallbladder, and bile duct cancers
Bone and joint cancers
Skin cancers
Breast cancer
Female reproductive cancers (cervical, ovarian, endometrial, uterine sarcoma)
Testicular and penile cancers
Bladder cancer
Kidney cancer
Brain tumors
Cancers of endocrine glands (thyroid, thymus, etc.)
Leukemia (other than CLL and hairy cell leukemia)
Cancers at all other sites
Cancer (including leukemia) in the children of veterans


Does Agent Orange cause any other health problems?

Vietnam service, and Agent Orange exposure in particular, have also been studied for possible links to health problems other than cancer.

In its report Veterans and Agent Orange, the Institute of Medicine has looked at the possible link between exposure to Agent Orange and other herbicides and several non-cancerous health conditions.
IOM: Links Between Herbicides (Including Agent Orange) and Other Health Effects

Sufficient evidence of an association

Chloracne

Limited/suggestive evidence of an association

Amyloidosis
Early-onset peripheral neuropathy
Parkinson disease
Porphyria cutanea tarda
High blood pressure
Stroke
Ischemic heart disease
Type 2 diabetes
Spina bifida in children of veterans

[Dauphin]

Look, the Agent Orange/Dioxins thing isn't under debate. The only people claiming it isn't harmful are ****ing nutjobs, and the ****** twins here. Not only is it utterly stupid but it's also grossly offensive to the large numbers of people who died horrible deaths for no reason other than the chemical companies and the US military didn't take care of the people they were supposed to protect. The only reason Reg yaps about it is because he read a self published book by an idiot who he chose to believe. HC has now jumped on the same bandwagon (go Kucibros!).

Here's what the sane world has to say about it..

I don't question the debate. I question flawed logical approaches. Settling a lawsuit does not mean you are guilty. It means the cost of settling is judged to be less than the cost of litigation.

You can flip the argument around. Why didn't the claimants demand more than a few thousand dollars a person if the effects were so clear cut and the harm so bad? They claimed billions, but settled for $180m?

[kentonio]

I don't question the debate. I question flawed logical approaches. Settling a lawsuit does not mean you are guilty. It means the cost of settling is judged to be less than the cost of litigation.

You can flip the argument around. Why didn't the claimants demand more than a few thousand dollars a person if the effects were so clear cut and the harm so bad?

Because proving each person had been subjected to a high enough dose of this poison and further proving that it had been the sole reason for their illnesses is insanely hard. Sometimes a win of any kind is better than an endless fight, especially to people already suffering terribly and with limited time to live.

[Dauphin]

It was rhetorical. There is a reason why. Just as the companies making the stuff had a reason why. Guilt is not the necessary motivator.

[Hauldren Collider]

Look, the Agent Orange/Dioxins thing isn't under debate. The only people claiming it isn't harmful are ****ing nutjobs, and the ****** twins here. Not only is it utterly stupid but it's also grossly offensive to the large numbers of people who died horrible deaths for no reason other than the chemical companies and the US military didn't take care of the people they were supposed to protect. The only reason Reg yaps about it is because he read a self published book by an idiot who he chose to believe. HC has now jumped on the same bandwagon (go Kucibros!).

Here's what the sane world has to say about it..

Can you get a link to those studies? If they are what I think they are, they also do not actually show a link between agent orange and any of those things.

The studies I have seen which show these links have been rife with sampling bias and obvious small-sample variance.

[Hauldren Collider]

Also, I love that you're constantly on this bent about insulting veterans, as if misidentifying the source of their cancer is somehow being kinder to them.

[regexcellent]

One thing to be wary of is studies at a 95% confidence interval, since 5% will wind up being wrong and those are the ones that get published (since they have interesting results. Accurate results are rarely interesting).