new OKC thread (yet another Savalog)

[pchang]

I used to pick something I really wanted to do, then asked a girl if she wanted to come along.

[Lorizael]

How are dinners intense and awkward? Or, rather more intense and awkward than lunch or coffee or whatever food consumable event you can consider.

My understanding is that dinners can be more awkward because they can be more formal. Candles, waiters with snooty accents, roasted duck in a fine asparagus sauce, that kind of thing. I have no idea if this is really true; all social interaction is intense and awkward for me.

[Lorizael]

I used to pick something I really wanted to do, then asked a girl if she wanted to come along.

This is another problem for me. I'm basically a hermit and can't often think of things I want to do.

[Sava]

Also, how does this going on dates thing work? I've heard that dinner and a movie is actually a bad date idea, because dinners are intense and awkward and movies don't allow for conversation. What's a good date?

With a mostly random stranger, how can you possibly be comfortable, and how can you possibly know each other's interests enough to know what to do together?

It depends. As Imran said, dinner is a fine first date. Generally, I prefer something very casual for a first meeting. Though, I should mention that around half of my "first dates" involve either me going to her place or her going to my place with the two of us feasting on each other rather than food. Admittedly, I am probably on more of the extreme end when it comes to such things.

Movies don't allow for conversation. I rarely suggest going to a movie as a first date. Lunch is always good because there's free time available during the day still if you want to continue hanging out. When I have gone to movies, like with this current woman, it has been spur of the moment. We'd already had a great time talking for a few hours, and we each wanted to continue to spend time with each other.

Being comfortable with strangers is not something that comes easy to me. It took practice. Going on dates that ultimately go nowhere is actually helpful. Or at least, it has been for me. I go into every new situation as if that's going to be the only date. That helps take the pressure off me. Date doesn't go well? I expect that. Date goes well? Oh wow. Awesome!

Exchanging messages beforehand helps. You guys know me pretty well. I'm not shy about sharing. I definitely over-share. That helps. Trusting another person with an intensely personal secret is a leap of faith. You don't know how the person will react. I like to be very light hearted and self-deprecating when it comes to my overly honest style of communication. Gotta be cool with making fun of yourself; especially if you are exhibiting behaviors that are considered a little weird.

You can also be honest about how dating isn't necessarily easy for you. Hell, make that the whole theme of your profile if you want. You could even say straight up, "First dates aren't easy for me. I'd like to meet someone and go out in order practice dating."

There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying that. In a way, you are revealing your soft underbelly, so to speak. You may find someone who is very social and can help you out. You may find someone in a similar position as you who also finds a first meeting to be awkward.

"I'd love to go out as friends first so we can get to know each other better before actually dating"
"First dates are awkward for me. I'd like to just meet for coffee and talk casually before going on an actual date."

I've met women exclusively for sex. Right before I met my most recent girlfriend, I met a woman at her place just for sex. We had been texting and exchanging messages for a couple weeks beforehand. That helps create intimacy. We exchanged maybe 2,000 text messages before we met. When I went to see this woman for the first time, she answered the door bottomless. As soon as that door opened, I could smell "her". It was fun, but I don't think I would do it again.

Overall, if you are open and honest about such things, I think you'll find someone who is sensitive, understanding and won't judge you for any perceived dating fails or awkward moments. Above all else, I would encourage you to just get out there. If the awkwardness is merely something that you are concerned about for your own comfort level and not necessarily something that is a source of fear, then you could treat dating as immersion therapy.

Many women I've met are in the same boat is you. They've been in some long term relationships but never really "dated". Perhaps they got married at a young age to a high school sweetheart and then ended up getting a divorce.

One thing I always try to keep in perspective is how not bad awkwardness is in the grand scheme of things. We're talking now about this as if it is a problem for you. Granted, it is. I don't want to minimize that. But women face greater challenges and dangers when it comes to men... assault, rape, murder. When I think about that, it really makes the fears that I have about dating seem quite trivial.

I hope some of this helps. I tried to talk about a lot in hopes that maybe at least one thing I say seems like a good way to operate. Also, I've really found talking to you guys about this to be legitimately helpful. Most of you guys are wonderful, supportive people.

[Sava]

oh, also, go lift weights

I know I fuck that chicken to death, but it does help. Strength training helps with confidence. I've found that makes the awkwardness less of an issue. "Rawr, I'm big and strong. Dating doesn't scare me, rawr."

[Aeson]

You could join a marriage cult be an American in about half the world's countries. Then you'll have to fight off the women.

(The half where they won't try to behead you of course.)

[Sava]

You could join a marriage cult be an American in about half the world's countries. Then you'll have to fight off the women.

A few questions. I've never been outside of the US. Does being an American male make me somewhat of a commodity? Would women in other countries pursue me? I'm so used to being the one who does the pursuing. I figure, if I have to do that, I'd rather do it where I am already established.

Assuming women would pursue me, how would I get to one of these magical places?

[N35t0r]

My understanding is that dinners can be more awkward because they can be more formal. Candles, waiters with snooty accents, roasted duck in a fine asparagus sauce, that kind of thing. I have no idea if this is really true; all social interaction is intense and awkward for me.

I didn't go over Sava's wot, but a dinner doesn't necessarily need to be a romantic dinner? I don't know, unless hollywood has spoiled you that much, a regular dinner in a decent restaurant (not fast food, 85% of the time).

Going out for drinks (especially if other people in the same group are also in the plan) is a relatively relaxed alternative. (That is, unless only one other person finally shows up, and she has to leave early, leaving you you two alone... I still think it was a set-up, but I did end up marrying her, so no complains)

[Sava]

I didn't go over Sava's wot,

[N35t0r]

It's before 9 AM, I have a rule, no wots before 9.

[Sava]

that's a very chrono-centric attitude

[N35t0r]

Well, clocks are circular, so it's always possible to justify that it's 'a lot after' 9

[Sava]

Indeed.

[I AM MOBIUS]

I think the important thing is not to take dating too seriously - even the failures are fun...

[pchang]

But the place is highly Catholic, so they won't be aware of the latest medical research vis a vis blowjobs.