what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Aeson]

Classic western tactics: "we have the proof, but we won't show it to you, but it's definitely Russia".

I explicitly stated I didn't claim it was Russia and don't expect to ever know for sure who did it. Pretending I am claiming it was Russia is absurdly stupid on your part, clearly showing how you are incapable of accurate assessment of even the most obvious facts.

Also lumping me in with your monolithic view of "The West" is moronic. Because I am against the US being in Syria altogether. I don't think we should have gotten involved in Libya either. Or gone into Iraq. Or supported Saddam against Iran, or helped topple the Shah. I was also against the Cuban embargo, am very derogatory of our role (government and corporations) in setting banana republics. Against the Vietnam war. I am about as far from your characterisation of "The West" as you portray it as is possible to be. Yet you lump me in there with all the rest.

[Ellestar]

I explicitly stated I didn't claim it was Russia and don't expect to ever know for sure who did it. Pretending I am claiming it was Russia is absurdly stupid on your part, clearly showing how you are incapable of accurate assessment of even the most obvious facts.

EVERY SINGLE MAJOR WESTERN MEDIA CLAIMS IT'S RUSSIA. And you protect their position. Sorry, but it can't be interpreted any other way.

And most obvious fact that there is no facts that Russia did it, but westerners tell that Russia did it. That's a fact. What kind "of accurate assessment of even the most obvious facts" you want from me, a common citizen, if your media and your government officials don't even take facts into account altogether? They don't even give any facts. Again, like with MH17, where are these facts that we can disprove? You just ****ing lie it's Russia, use fakes or some obscure things that don't prove anything at all, and that's it.

Also lumping me in with your monolithic view of "The West" is moronic. Because I am against the US being in Syria altogether. I don't think we should have gotten involved in Libya either. Or gone into Iraq. Or supported Saddam against Iran, or helped topple the Shah. I was also against the Cuban embargo, am very derogatory of our role (government and corporations) in setting banana republics. Against the Vietnam war. I am about as far from your characterisation of "The West" as you portray it as is possible to be. Yet you lump me in there with all the rest.

Why not? For me, and for all people in Syria, Iran, Lybia, Afghanistan and other countries you're there with all the rest. What do you do, other than silently supporting what "The West" does? Nothing. So you're there with the rest.

I mean come on, peace is not even discussed as a remotely important issue in USA elections. Actually, Clinton promises more war and labels Trump as "pro-Putin" because Trump doesn't want more war. What does it say about USA electorate if one candidate to presidency attacks the other because he doesn't want war? Either USA citizens are neutral about the issue, or they want more war. That's it. So, yes, ALL OF YOU are there together with all the rest.

Clinton has 46% support, or something? But there are tons of proof from completely different sources (including witnesses from terrorists themselves) that personally Clinton organized support of terrorists, and these 46% are totally ok with it. Instead, they're discussing, who TOLD something inappropriate about women, Bill Clinton or Trump. That's an important issue, who will be the president. Being supporter of terrorists is totally fine for US citizens.

[BeBMan]

EVERY SINGLE MAJOR WESTERN MEDIA CLAIMS IT'S RUSSIA.

Liar.

[BeBMan]

US has the best propaganda machinery the world has ever seen, and EU is 90% in.

Some notable successes in the 21st century:

* Saddam was responsible for 9/11 therefore we need to invade Iraq
* There is no problem with Saudi Arabia, we need to support them and sell them more weapons
* Gaddaffi is a threat to his people, we need to take him out
** (this one deserves two stars) Al Quaeda did 9-11, we need to start the war on terror and terrorists by invading the middle east, turning into Al Quaeda Al Nusra front are the good guys we need to sell them weapons and support them in their fight for freedom

Amazing.

There are many more naturally, but our propaganda chiefs and spin doctors earn the bucks they are paid (unlike bankers ***Wells Fargo ).

Yeah, we all remember the Iraq thing, how 90% of the EU participated (esp. France and Germany) and how there was absolutely no critical debate in western media (which is absolutely not going on until today).

[Aeson]

EVERY SINGLE MAJOR WESTERN MEDIA CLAIMS IT'S RUSSIA. And you protect their position. Sorry, but it can't be interpreted any other way.

You said "INSTANTLY". "In the case when there is no evidence and West INSTANTLY blames Russia". The truth is there were many conflicting reports coming out about it.

You are just a zealot who can't differentiate between anything other than "agrees with me" and "doesn't agree with me".

What kind "of accurate assessment of even the most obvious facts" you want from me ...

I have not claimed Russia or Syria did it. You ignore that and pretend I have. That is you ignoring blatantly obvious facts to come to obviously wrong conclusions.

The are words are in this thread. Which anyone can read. You can't even get that right.

Why not? For me, and for all people in Syria, Iran, Lybia, Afghanistan and other countries you're there with all the rest. What do you do, other than silently supporting what "The West" does? Nothing. So you're there with the rest.

This is the kind of absurd logic that shows very clearly how deranged you are.

[Bereta_Eder]

Yeah, we all remember the Iraq thing, how 90% of the EU participated (esp. France and Germany) and how there was absolutely no critical debate in western media (which is absolutely not going on until today).

That was actually a high day of the EU.

The glory that was

[kentonio]

The EU: an admittedly flawed organization but one which is based on principles of genuine freedom, human rights and the protection and encouragement of art and culture.

If you're an enemy of that, then you're an enemy of everything I care about. I'm sure as **** not going to take seriously any attacks on that from citizens or supporters of a state that kills dissenting journalists, encourages the beating of homosexuals and foreigners, and annexes other countries territory with military forces.

[Bereta_Eder]

Every country looks out for its butt but in the end we are all responsible for making imformed decisions that will luckily lead to the peace and prosperity of all (now of course someone might be nationalist and doesn't want that - there are many)

For example here are three things that are pre-occupying by the raprochment of Turkey and Russia.

Turkey wants to build a nuclear reactor on the coast oppposite cyprus.
Russia will help her. I wish it wouldn't.

Greece is totally against nuclear power (we are vest buddies cith zermany on this )

Now if Russia didn't buold it maybe France would.

But when it will inevitably melt down it will affect people.

Anyway.

Second point of concern: The air defense system. This is very critical for too many reasons to mention.
Russia will help her here too. We also have russian equipment.
Anyway there is a problem of incompatibility that Turkey will face with "western" made weapons.

Anyway, if it didn't get it from Russia it would get it from the US.

Third point of contention: erdogan is a bit pissed.

and ah.. if you're american I'd rather not visit Turkey right now

(threats about arrests of US citizens untill gullen is released. openly)


4rth point.

Turkish stream

It will pass through Greece so both countries (turkey and greece) are augmented in the geopolitical energy map.

I'd maybe rather it was just bulgaria and greece

but the former don't know how to play the game yet

[Bereta_Eder]

The EU: an admittedly flawed organization but one which is based on principles of genuine freedom, human rights and the protection and encouragement of art and culture.

If you're an enemy of that, then you're an enemy of everything I care about. I'm sure as **** not going to take seriously any attacks on that from citizens or supporters of a state that kills dissenting journalists, encourages the beating of homosexuals and foreigners, and annexes other countries territory with military forces.

Is this directed at me?

I'm a friend of all those you mentioned but if you think that the EU is serving them with the same tenacity as before you're a bit behind.

Personally the UK exit is multiplying beneficial for Greece

[Bereta_Eder]

Now you talk about freedom and the jazz but what freedom is there when you have participated in plunging a country in a devastating situation are personally, as a country, responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths? for profit.

Am I to simply brush this aside because you believe in humanitarian values? who doesn't?

ask Serb, he does too!

We can sit by the fire and claim that we are beauty contest participants that are studying psychology and want world peace but that doesn't mean much

[Bereta_Eder]

the protection and encouragement of art and culture.

I'd like to weigh in here too.

I'm against unfiltered state subsidies to movies art etc

They mainly lead to attrocities that only the director his mom and his girlfriend watch.
With our money.

[Ellestar]

You said "INSTANTLY". "In the case when there is no evidence and West INSTANTLY blames Russia". The truth is there were many conflicting reports coming out about it.

You are just a zealot who can't differentiate between anything other than "agrees with me" and "doesn't agree with me".

Unlike you, i have links to prove your lies.

Convoy was hit in September 19 in the dark.

On the next day (so that's exactly that, "instantly", because it was hit during the night) all western press instantly blamed Russia:

First lines from articles about who hit the convoy:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/20/politics/syria-convoy-strike-us-conclusion-russia/

The United States has reached the preliminary conclusion that Russian warplanes bombed an aid convoy and warehouse belonging to the Syrian Arab Red Crescent, two US officials told CNN. "All the evidence we have points to that conclusion," one of the officials said.

As usual, WHAT EVIDENCE? WHERE IS IT? And when lying Western press will STOP TELLING LIES?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-latest-france-urges-response-to-syria-chemical-attacks/2016/09/19/757c8afe-7ec8-11e6-ad0e-ab0d12c779b1_story.html

The White House says the U.S. holds Russia responsible for airstrikes by either Syria or Russia that hit an aid convoy in Syria.
White House Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes said all information indicates an airstrike hit the convoy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-idUSKCN11P146

Syrian or Russian aircraft struck an aid convoy near Aleppo on Monday and killed 12 people, according to a war monitor, as the Syrian military declared a one-week truce brokered by the United States and Russia over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_aid_during_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Russia

And here it is, copied right into wikipedia as a new encyclopedia-level "truth" because it was posted by "reliable sorces" of lying western press.

And the likes of you call me "deranged"?

[kentonio]

Now you talk about freedom and the jazz but what freedom is there when you have participated in plunging a country in a devastating situation are personally, as a country, responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths? for profit.

Am I to simply brush this aside because you believe in humanitarian values? who doesn't?

ask Serb, he does too!

We can sit by the fire and claim that we are beauty contest participants that are studying psychology and want world peace but that doesn't mean much

How many wars has the EU declared?

[BeBMan]

(...)all western press instantly blamed Russia:

Feel free to spent the rest of your miserable life to post quotes from all western media that support your view. As it looks now you have not even been able to check all western media yet, which is no surprise given the number and variety of media outlets in what you conviniently sum up as "the west".

Just these days the BBC had a similar article reporting the US view that Russia is to blame (which is not the same as claiming it as a fact), but at the same time did report the Russian view as well as it quoted UN guys saying it is not conclusive so far what happened. It noted that Russia did change it's story several times now (same as with MH 17), but made no claim itself on who is to blame for the convoy attack.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37430824

As it stands, you are just pulling stuff out of your ass time and time again.

[kentonio]

A timely story for our Russian (and Greek) friends..

Corbyn Spokesman: Focus On Russian Bombing In Syria ‘Diverts’ Attention From ‘American Atrocities’

Focus on Russian bombing in Syria “diverts” attention away from atrocities by the US-led coalition in the country, Jeremy Corbyn’s spokesman has declared.

The senior member of the Labour leader’s team also pointed out that the public were as free to protest outside the American embassy in London as much as its Russian counterpart.

The remarks follow calls from Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson for a mass demonstration directed at the Moscow regime’s embassy in Kensington.

The Labour spokesman said that both Corbyn and Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry believed that it was preferable to hold talks ‘within’ the Russian embassy rather than protest outside it.

He went on to say that there was too much focus on Russian bombing of civilians, following the outcry over the strikes on hospitals in Aleppo and on a UN convoy delivering aid.

“The focus on Russian atrocities or Syrian army atrocities I think sometimes diverts attention from other atrocities that are taking place,” said Corbyn’s aide.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...&utm_hp_ref=uk

Yeah, that's a senior aide to our opposition leader. Because in the West we all speak with one voice, and believe the same propaganda..