what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Serb]

But the election in Crimea was legit, right?

It was.
Anyone who doesn't believe that the outcome of the referendum in Crimea doesn't reflect the will of majority of the Crimean people is a just a moron.

You don't trust Serb? Read your own Forbes, Gallup and GfK:

The U.S and European Union may want to save Crimeans from themselves. But the Crimeans are happy right where they are.
One year after the annexation of the Ukrainian peninsula in the Black Sea, poll after poll shows that the locals there — be they Ukrainians, ethnic Russians or Tatars are mostly all in agreement: life with Russia is better than life with Ukraine.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/

[rah]

You can't have it both ways.
If you consider one election invalid because of

cause the whole country was under massive terror of the new "temporary authorities" and the elections itself was nothing, but a fraud.

you basically also described the situation in Crimea.

You deny the legitimacy while accepting the legitimacy of the other. Sounds quite biased to me.

You can't pick and choose which election you like.

[Proteus_MST]

1) It is not. First of all, 'cause there shouldn't be ANY elections IN THE FIRST PLACE, because Yanukovhich was still a legitimate president IN ACCORDANCE WITH UKRAINIAN CONSTITUTION. Which was blatantly violated 12 times during the coup. Therefore any elections after that are illegal, in accordance withe UKRAINIAN LEGISLATION.

It was Yanukovich himself who fled the country ... he wasn´t driven out of it.
And it was the ukrainian parliament which therefore decided that he left his post and was unfit to continue holding the office.

On 21 February 2014, Yanukovych claimed that, after lengthy discussions, he had reached an agreement with the opposition.^[11] Later that day, however, he fled the capital for Kharkiv, travelling next to Crimea, and eventually to exile in southern Russia.^[12] On 22 February, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove him from his post, on the grounds that he was unable to fulfill his duties

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych

2) Name me a single democratic country where such things are possible with the candidates for presidency:

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I know a country where someone who surely would have been a strong competitor for presidency in any upcoming elections was murdered.
The country is russia ... and the name is Boris Nemtsow

3) Name me a single country where the offices of the opposition parties are burn to the ground, where the communist party is outlawed. Though, I guess you can name one such democratic country easily, 'cause it's your own country. The first thing what nazis did was banning the communist party. It is the first thing what nazis do. ALWAYS. And Ukraine is just another proof of that.

I know a second country:
Russia

According to Wikipedia there are 3 parties outlawed/banned in russia:

• Communist Party of the Soviet Union
• National Bolshevik Party (Национал-большевистская партия, Natsional-bol'shevitskaya partiya)
• Hizb ut-Tahrir (Хизб ут-Тахрир)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_in_Russia#Banned_parties_in_Russia

4) And after all that, go ahead and try to say something about democratic elections in Ukraine.

The whole thing was one huge and obvious nazi fraud. For the first time for the 25 years of Ukrainian independence they have elected a grey cardinal (he wasn't one of the three "heroes" of Maidan: Yaitsenuk, Klitchko and nazi Tyagnibock. Poroshenko was not an icon of "revolution"), an oligarch in the first round of presidential elections. That have never happened before! Never!

Guess why?
'cause the whole country was under massive terror of the new "temporary authorities" and the elections itself was nothing, but a fraud.
But the West have applauded as always, 'cause his is your son of a b!tch.

I cannot say anything about the elections ...
but I cannot imagine that they were more fradulent than the so called referendum in Crimea

You know, German, you are even dumber than any American. The USA is beyond the pond, they don't give a f*ck out idiotic Ukrainian Indians, they are just "locals" for them. But guess where all those millions of Ukrainians will run from the country YOU HAVE RUINED?
To US?
Don't make me laugh!
Sure two millions have already run to Russia (to a country "aggressor" which gives them food, work and shelter), but what about the rest?

Considering that Ukraina is a land in civil war I cannot blame them ...
if I would be living in Donbass or near the front I also would try to seek refuge ...
and russia surely is nearer to people within donbass or bordering regions than any european country.

Would you gladly accept hordes of Ukrainians begging for allowances?
And Ukrainians are naturally born beggars.

Which proves my point that you are a victim of russian propaganda, considering the fact that you put people into drawers depending on in which country they are born.

Also:
We are already accepting hordes of syrians

Might change soon if Angie can influence european policies so that refugees are distributed among the european countries in a more just way ... but currently germany is herboring the largest number of refugees of all european countries.
Would be the same with ukrainians.

But of course, if the russia backed uprising in eastern ukraina wouldn´t be, there also would be no reason for ukrainians to flee the country.

[rah]

And using that Forbes quote also doesn't do your "PRO GOVERNMENT MEDIA" argument any favors either.

Again, you can't have it both ways.

[Serb]

you basically also described the situation in Crimea.

Nope!
Nobody was hurt or terrorized during the Crimean referendum. The whole point of "polite men" was to let Crimeans to vote without the pressure from the "revolutionaries" from Kiev.

You deny the legitimacy while accepting the legitimacy of the other. Sounds quite biased to me.

Sounds like truth for me. The first one was a violent and illegal coup, the second was a democratic expression of will of the people via referendum.

You can't pick and choose which election you like.

According to UN charter people have a right for self-determination - that is exactly what had happened in Crimea and they did it in a democratic way by voting.
And by the way! I may be wrong, please correct me if I am, but I recall you have something alike in your own American constitution - a right for rebellion vs. illegal government. Am I right?
The citizens of Donbass have rebelled vs. illegal government, but their problem was - there was no "polite men" to protect them when that government have started to bomb their cities.

[Serb]

And using that Forbes quote also doesn't do your "PRO GOVERNMENT MEDIA" argument any favors either.

Again, you can't have it both ways.

Did I ever say your media always lie?
Of course you have splashes of truth here and there. Sometimes.

[Serb]

It was Yanukovich himself who fled the country ... he wasn´t driven out of it.
And it was the ukrainian parliament which therefore decided that he left his post and was unfit to continue holding the office.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych

I know a country where someone who surely would have been a strong competitor for presidency in any upcoming elections was murdered.
The country is russia ... and the name is Boris Nemtsow



I know a second country:
Russia

According to Wikipedia there are 3 parties outlawed/banned in russia:

• Communist Party of the Soviet Union
• National Bolshevik Party (Национал-большевистская партия, Natsional-bol'shevitskaya partiya)
• Hizb ut-Tahrir (Хизб ут-Тахрир)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_in_Russia#Banned_parties_in_Russia

I cannot say anything about the elections ...
but I cannot imagine that they were more fradulent than the so called referendum in Crimea



Considering that Ukraina is a land in civil war I cannot blame them ...
if I would be living in Donbass or near the front I also would try to seek refuge ...
and russia surely is nearer to people within donbass or bordering regions than any european country.



Which proves my point that you are a victim of russian propaganda, considering the fact that you put people into drawers depending on in which country they are born.

Also:
We are already accepting hordes of syrians

Might change soon if Angie can influence european policies so that refugees are distributed among the european countries in a more just way ... but currently germany is herboring the largest number of refugees of all european countries.
Would be the same with ukrainians.

But of course, if the russia backed uprising in eastern ukraina wouldn´t be, there also would be no reason for ukrainians to flee the country.

Ёбаный стыд!

[Serb]

Elle, займись идиотом! Плиз! Я реально устал уже от этого непроходимого долбоебизма!

Заебали, одноклеточные. Сил больше нет!

[rah]

Did I ever say your media always lie?
Of course you have splashes of truth here and there. Sometimes.

Actually you said

ALL Western media has the same story - they always have same villain and same victim. They are all like Soviet Pravda - turn the truth 180 degrees.

[Serb]

Как ты их вообще терпишь годами? Это же непробиваемые идиоты с одной извилиной.

[Serb]

Actually you said

Blah! Isn't that obvious that by "ALL" I have meant "majority/most"?

[Serb]

And moreover - by "all" I've meant not only American media, but German, British, etc. - ALL Western mainstream media.

[Serb]

And surely, years after - WHEN THE DEED is done already, your media could change their mind about the topic.
But who cares then? Who needs your loath apologizes and confessions when people are murdered already?

[rah]

Actually I was referring to the "ALWAYS" that I bolded.

And in this thread alone there have already been many examples where it wasn't the case so even if I'll concede that ALWAYS isn't absolute, it's looking more like sometimes.

[Proteus_MST]

Words have meanings ... if you say "all" in english you mean all and not the majority/most.

Also, if we take the Kunduz hospital bombing for example, the majority of the western media is bashing the US army for the bombardment.
There was only a small minority of western media that tried to downplay the fact that the responsibility of the bombing rested on the shoulders of the US military