what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Serb]

Onodera has a point, Dinner ...
while the use of these missile launchers is bad enough (and shows how much one can trust Putin when he claims that russia isn´t involved in the eastern ukrainian war (he somehow reminds me of Baghdad Bob )) you explicitely claimed that they were used on villages

There is no Russian army in Donbass. There is no strict, solid and structured war machine, a REGULAR Russian army, which acts in accordance with its doctrines. There are a LOT OF Russian volunteers in Donbass and most of them have military training and experience, no doubt about that. Do we supply them? Sure we do! But, prove it first!
But as an army - that force doesn't exist in Ukraine. They fight like irregulars. Simple as that. If there was a REAL Russian army with its overwhelming and non-questioning air-superiority and light years ahead ANY superiority in EVERY aspect of military hardware and training (and in numbers) - the war would have took weeks instead of years. Because Ukrainian army is nothing, but a bunch of poorly armed beggars and bandits.

[Serb]

Yes, feel free to blame the US for people's desire to throw off despots and seek democracy.

First of all, who told you the majority of Libyan or Iraqis people wanted that kind of democracy you brought to them with your bombs?

You have created and trained the opposition, which represents a TINY portion of the population and then proclaimed their attacks vs. the legitimate authorities as the will of the majority of population.

That's how you always do, be it Ukraine or Egypt. And the absolute majority of Americans are absolutely sure they are doing a right thing as long as your media is spreading their lies about "freedom".

Look at Iraq! Look at Libya. It is YOU who have turned these countries into a bloody hell.
YOU DID THAT!!!
NOBODY ELSE, BUT YOU!

Same story with Ukraine and the rest.

[rah]

First of all, who told you the majority of Libyan or Iraqis people wanted that kind of democracy you brought to them with your bombs?

You were mentioning ARAB spring. That wasn't Iraq.

[Serb]

Same egg from a different perspective.

[rah]

Not really. We used a totally different lie to justify the attack in IRAQ. Please don't get confused.

[Serb]

[Proteus_MST]

There is no Russian army in Donbass. There is no strict, solid and structured war machine, a REGULAR Russian army, which acts in accordance with its doctrines. There are a LOT OF Russian volunteers in Donbass and most of them have military training and experience, no doubt about that. Do we supply them? Sure we do! But, prove it first!
...

For the question on whether russia is militarily involved in the fight with the separatists (which IIRC was denied by Putin) it doesn´t matter whether you just deploy "holiday soldiers" (which are said to be "encouraged"to volunteer by their commanders) and then support them with arms, ammunition and heavy equipment (like rocket launchers, tanks or BUK missile launchers) or whether you officially deploy one or 2 divisions of russian troops.

If you supply your holiday soldiers with equipment and supplies (and let your commanders encourage regular soldiers to go to ukraine) it is in every way a military involvement ... just as the american support of the syrian rebels with instructors and weapons is a US military involvement in syria

[rah]

It does demonstrates one thing though. The press chomped on to it and wouldn't let go of the bone. It dug deep. The powers that be couldn't squash it. While there's always a few idiots, a majority of Americans were convinced by the press that there were no WMDs. To me, that shows the independence of the media here. The best the administration could counter was that while there probably were not any WMDs that the president was lied to so he was still justified. And most of us never bought that one.

So whenever I hear that the media is controlled by our leaders to just regurgitate what the administration wants, I just shake my head. I'm not saying they're not influenced by their owners, I'm just saying that it's not the grand conspiracy that you routinely preach.

This wasn't the first time that the "controlled media" almost brought down a president. Think Nixon.

[Serb]

If you supply your holiday soldiers with equipment and supplies (and let your commanders encourage regular soldiers to go to ukraine) it is in every way a military involvement ... just as the american support of the syrian rebels with instructors and weapons is a US military involvement in syria

Yes, it's about the same. The only difference is that Russia is doing that vs. illegitimate government which came to power due to a coup, while the West openly supports and supplies rebels in Syria who fights vs. a legitimate government of the country.

Still, Russia is a devil and you f*ckers are saints!

Well, go ahead now! Eat your own sh!t Europe - I'm sure you are happy to incorporate all those refugees (including "sleeping" terrorists) into your society.

[Proteus_MST]

Yes, it's about the same. The only difference is that Russia is doing that vs. illegitimate government which came to power due to a coup, while the West openly supports and supplies rebels in Syria who fights vs. a legitimate government of the country.

Still, Russia is a devil and you f*ckers are saints!

Well, go ahead now! Eat your own sh!t Europe - I'm sure you are happy to incorporate all those refugees (including "sleeping" terrorists) into your society.

You may have missed the memo, but since the "revolution" there already have been regular elections in the ukraine in 2014.
The only 2 regions that were excluded were crimea and donbass ... Crimea because it had been annexed by russia and donbass because of the civil war that at this time already had been broken out.
The ukrainian would have had every chance to vote another puppet of Putin, if they had desired to do so ... and the people of donbass would have had every chance to participate in the elections, if there had been no instigators of an uprising (with foreign military backing).

So, the current government of ukraina is a legally elected one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_parliamentary_election,_2014

[Proteus_MST]

It does demonstrates one thing though. The press chomped on to it and wouldn't let go of the bone. It dug deep. The powers that be couldn't squash it. While there's always a few idiots, a majority of Americans were convinced by the press that there were no WMDs. To me, that shows the independence of the media here. The best the administration could counter was that while there probably were not any WMDs that the president was lied to so he was still justified. And most of us never bought that one.

So whenever I hear that the media is controlled by our leaders to just regurgitate what the administration wants, I just shake my head. I'm not saying they're not influenced by their owners, I'm just saying that it's not the grand conspiracy that you routinely preach.

This wasn't the first time that the "controlled media" almost brought down a president. Think Nixon.

You can see it also in the bombing on the Kunduz hospital ...
I am sure that the US army isn´t really amused about the amount of reporting that goes into the incident ...
especially as it sheds a truely bad light on the US military.

Surely wouldn´t be possible if the US government had any say in the reporting of the media

[rah]

Yeah, I'll admit that I was willing to cut the military some slack when this was first reported. (fog of war and all that) but the reporting since has made that much more difficult.

[Serb]

You may have missed the memo, but since the "revolution" there already have been regular elections in the ukraine in 2014.
The only 2 regions that were excluded were crimea and donbass ... Crimea because it had been annexed by russia and donbass because of the civil war that at this time already had been broken out.
The ukrainian would have had every chance to vote another puppet of Putin, if they had desired to do so ... and the people of donbass would have had every chance to participate in the elections, if there had been no instigators of an uprising (with foreign military backing).

So, the current government of ukraina is a legally elected one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrain...election,_2014

1) It is not. First of all, 'cause there shouldn't be ANY elections IN THE FIRST PLACE, because Yanukovhich was still a legitimate president IN ACCORDANCE WITH UKRAINIAN CONSTITUTION. Which was blatantly violated 12 times during the coup. Therefore any elections after that are illegal, in accordance withe UKRAINIAN LEGISLATION.
2) Name me a single democratic country where such things are possible with the candidates for presidency during the elections:




3) Name me a single democratic country where the offices of the opposition parties are burn to the ground, where the communist party is outlawed. Though, I guess you can name one such democratic country easily, 'cause it's your own country. The first thing what nazis did was banning the communist party. It is the first thing what nazis do. ALWAYS. And Ukraine is just another proof of that.
4) And after all that, go ahead and try to say something about democratic elections in Ukraine.

The whole thing was one huge and obvious nazi fraud. For the first time for the 25 years of Ukrainian independence they have elected a grey cardinal (he wasn't one of the three "heroes" of Maidan: Yaitcenukh, Klitchko and nazi Tyagnibock. Poroshenko was not an icon of "revolution" at the slightest), an oligarch (the former minister of Economy of "corrupt" Yanukovich government they have overthrew, one of the co-founders of Yanukovich's corrupt party of Regions - the main opposition force to the western Ukrainian nazis) in the first round of presidential elections. That have never happened before! Never!

Guess why?
'cause the whole country was under massive terror of the new "temporary authorities" and the elections itself was nothing, but a fraud.
But the West have applauded as always, 'cause the locals have "elected" the proper "ours" (the Western) son of a b!tch.

You know, German, you are even more dumber than any American. The USA is beyond the pond, they don't give a f*ck about idiotic Ukrainian Indians, they are just "locals" for them. But guess where all those millions of Ukrainians will run from the country YOU HAVE RUINED when it will finally collapse (which is inevitable)?

To USA?
Don't make me laugh!
Sure nearly two millions have already gone to Russia (to a country "aggressor" which gives them food, work and shelter), but what about the rest 40+ mil?

Would you gladly accept hordes of Ukrainians begging for allowances?
And Ukrainians are naturally born beggars. They are champions in that sport (begging).

Eat your own sh!t, Europe! You have deserved it!
Idiots.

[rah]

'cause the whole country was under massive terror of the new "temporary authorities" and the elections itself was nothing, but a fraud.

But the election in Crimea was legit, right?

[Serb]

Oh, you was not in aware about all that sh!t that happen in Ukraine during the presidential elections?

It's a news for you?

Guess why?

Because you are an idiots who believe to your brainwashing machine and who don't want to know the truth, 'cause you are pretty satisfied with the sh!t your media is pulling into your empty brainless heads.
Pathetic f*ckers.