what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Sava]

we should have been doing so for a while.

Who says we haven't been? Maybe not officially but... you know, we might not be aware of a lot of things.

Though, I doubt speculation is helpful.

Yeah, I saw that video too. Fricken scary. Did you read some of the reports/rumors on reddit? Apparently, some of the Russkies on the ground thought it was a nuke

[OneFootInTheGrave]

This could get interesting .

The Russian counterstrike could take the conflict far beyond Ukraine, according to the source on the Defense Ministry's public advisory board.

Pointing to one possible avenue of asymmetrical retaliation, the source said Moscow could give in to long-standing Chinese requests for sensitive defense technologies that would aid in its development of high-tech weapons capable of doing serious damage to U.S. naval forces in the Asia-Pacific.

Moscow has so far declined China's requests on "politically correct pretenses," the source said.

"That's just one example. We can also encourage Iran, or even back Iran in a fight — a military operation — with Saudi Arabia, so then the prices for oil will skyrocket," the source said, explaining that these were just two possible responses.

The most interesting for Europe, which with the lapdog politicans that we have - is only deserved.

US is also an oil producer now, so it may even be that ( a proxy war to destabilize the world and in essence extend their hegemon status a little while longer) this is what they are really after, as with shale, their economy will be all right, while Europe and China will really be burnt with $200+ oil, while they get to blame the Russians for it.

But they could not do that, could they?

Freedom!

[Dinner]

I've got no problems with how Obama is handling this.

It's odd to see HC caterwauling about Obama and Merkel, saying you have the right idea, but then seeing you say Obama is doing the right thing.

I wasn't agreeing with his Obama bashing, I just take it for granted that he will do that and so skip over that part, but I was agreeing with his over all thrust of his argument. Putin really is getting bolder with each country he invades, he really is way the **** out of line with his current invasion, and he is also uniquely vulnerable right now due to his own stupidity. It is obvious that just sanctions aren't going to get him to stop his land grabs so why not up the ante and make him pay a far higher price for his invasion/aggression? Especially since we can do it cheaply and help the Ukrainians whom Putin is trying to, once again, force into the status of a subject people who have no right to self determination?

[Sava]

I wasn't agreeing with his Obama bashing, I just take it for granted that he will do that and so skip over that part, but I was agreeing with his over all thrust of his argument. Putin really is getting bolder with each country he invades, he really is way the **** out of line with his current invasion, and he is also uniquely vulnerable right now due to his own stupidity. It is obvious that just sanctions aren't going to get him to stop his land grabs so why not up the antenna and make him pay a far higher price for his invasion/aggression? Especially since we can do it cheaply and help the Ukrainians whom Putin is trying to, once again, force into the status of a subject people who have no right to self determination?

The Russian economy is getting crushed. The whole point of an insurgency (in this case) is to wear down an opponent economically. That's already happening. I'm not necessarily opposed to arming the Ukrainians. It just doesn't strike me as being particularly necessary. The last thing I want to see happen is American resources unnecessarily being poured into a fight. If and when the Russians withdraw, it's going to be because the conflict is costing them too much. If we overreach, we're going to delay that process. That's my concern.

[Proteus_MST]

Apparently a Ukrainian artillery unit attacked a compound where a bunch of those Russian aid trucks were parked.



I never knew food and medicine could be so volatile

It surely was a storage full of nitroglycerin ... meant for a hospital, for the treatment of heart diseases.
Poor eastern ukrainian heart patients now have to suffer due to those Ukrainians bombarding the peaceful aid convoy

[Dinner]

Weapons are cheap and we have warehouses full of them. This will force Russia to either back down or significantly increase the amount of blood and treasure they have to expend to maintain their invasion force at a time when they can least afford to do so. Russia is already going to have to spend much of its cash and even the national retirement fund just to keep the banks solvent as well as bailout Putin's cronies so this would be a major new expenditure when they can least afford it. It will cost them dearly and thus make any new invasions that much less likely simply because they won't have the financial means to do so.

If it helps the poor, stupid, propaganda believing Russian people realize that Putin is a ****ty dictator who is bad at running the country then so much the better.

[Hauldren Collider]

That, and there's also the fact that I feel we have something of an obligation to help these people.

[Dinner]

Indeed. The US has long stood up for the self determination of peoples, it was one of President Wilson's 14 points in WW1, so it would be hypocritical to abandon the Ukrainians in their hour of need, when an aggressive foreign dictatorship had imperialist designs on their country.

[Dr Strangelove]

US is also an oil producer now, so it may even be that ( a proxy war to destabilize the world and in essence extend their hegemon status a little while longer) this is what they are really after, as with shale, their economy will be all right, while Europe and China will really be burnt with $200+ oil, while they get to blame the Russians for it.

But they could not do that, could they?

Freedom!

The US has been an oil producer continuously since the 1840's, but 40 years ago slipped from being a net exporter to being a net importer. Four years ago that situation began to reverse itself, the US went from net importing 2 million barrels / day to net exporting 1 million barrels / day. In the past 3 months 15% of our wells have shut down due to not being profitable, and we may lose more. Shale oil and fracked oil are too expensive to produce when the price of oil is so low. We may yet lose all the progress gained in the past 4 years. The question is how long will OPEC keep this up? When they decide to let the price rise again will the recently closed wells reopen or will investors be scared off?

So who's hegemon status are you talking about? Right now it looks like OPEC is quite well succeeding at that very task.

[Dr Strangelove]

Indeed. The US has long stood up for the self determination of peoples, it was one of President Wilson's 14 points in WW1, so it would be hypocritical to abandon the Ukrainians in their hour of need, when an aggressive foreign dictatorship had imperialist designs on their country.

Hmmmm......... yeah, I seem to recall a little story about Wilson being approached by an Oriental man during the peace conference. The slight bespeckled little man wanted to ask Wilson to support self-determination for his country. Wilson had him forcibly removed. Tossed aside he went elsewhere for aide. The newly formed Soviet Union offered him their support. Ho Chi Minh never forgave Wilson or America.

[Sava]

so it would be hypocritical to abandon the Ukrainians in their hour of need

Good thing that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY is suggesting this

Why, in your guys' mind, is it war or nothing? That seems like such a stupid attitude.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Is it Afghanistan yet?

(80's Afghanistan. Not 00s' Afghanistan. Or even 90's Afghanistan, for that matter. Damn, their anarchy period since switching from Monarchy is just lasting forever, isn't it?)

[C0ckney]

Indeed. The US has long stood up for the self determination of peoples, it was one of President Wilson's 14 points in WW1, so it would be hypocritical to abandon the Ukrainians in their hour of need,

does that include those in eastern ukraine who prefer russia?

[Dinner]

Maybe in the long run but sure as **** not now that Russia has invaded as that would only reward aggression.

[Alexander's Horse]

Is it Afghanistan yet?

If it is, I'm going.