Exit Polls Suggest Syriza Has Won Greek Election

[OneFootInTheGrave]

The difference is that we're forced to suck American dick and take it up the ass - I'm under no illusion as to what our 'special relationship' is.

Greece went hunting for Putin's **** like it was a giddy man whore in a dungeon full of glory holes...

Greeks are at the stage where sucking on EU and the US is not palatable anymore, after being ravaged for 5 years. I am sure that after being raped for half a decade by the old partner, a new one, even if he is Putin, starts to look appealing.

[I AM MOBIUS]

Yeah, but you just know he's going to do it bareback...

[kentonio]

All in all, it would be better for everyone to give in, let Greeks exit and also to dismantle EU in the process as a benefit, seeing the institution it has become, we can only expect worse from it in the future, not better.

Screw that, you might want a return to completely independent european states, but I certainly don't. The EU is flawed in many (many) ways, but its also done an immense amount of good raising the expectations and living standards of nations across Europe, not to mention the rights of the people who live there.

As for Greece, it didn't need to EU to **** Greece up, the place was ****ed long before the EU arrived. I don't believe in making normal people pay the price for corrupt officials, but at some point they have to take some of the responsiblity for the state of their own country and the behaviour of the poeple they vote for. The EU just makes a nice easy scapegoat now for problems that are much older.

[Dinner]

What he said. The Greeks ****ed up their own country without anyone else's help. They kept voting for stupid and now they are where they deserve to be. Sure, I sure the politicians love desperately flailing around trying to find a scapegoat but the buck stops with the Greek people and they are the ones who are reaponsible.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Screw that, you might want a return to completely independent european states, but I certainly don't. The EU is flawed in many (many) ways, but its also done an immense amount of good raising the expectations and living standards of nations across Europe, not to mention the rights of the people who live there.

As for Greece, it didn't need to EU to **** Greece up, the place was ****ed long before the EU arrived. I don't believe in making normal people pay the price for corrupt officials, but at some point they have to take some of the responsiblity for the state of their own country and the behaviour of the poeple they vote for. The EU just makes a nice easy scapegoat now for problems that are much older.

On the first point, not necessarily all the way back to independent states (even though that is better if the only alternative is full federalization, as that is the goal), but a few notches back from where we are now - in a monetary union which primarily serves the Germans (this is actually UK complaint as well, and UK did well not to join it).

On the second point - Greece was in problems long before (which is a good old debate all in it's own right, screwed by the Germans and allies in WWII, screwed by the allies after WWII by encouraging a civil war, dictatorship which fostered the whole culture they have to deal with now, on the back of western loans- ie cleptocracy at the top which is bringing the whole EU down right now).

However, whatever the causes, the normal people have to take Greece out of EU as there are no mechanisms within the Union capable of dealing with their issues, short of depopulation, thus they need to get out, go bust, devaluate and start from scratch.

If they did it 5 years ago, they would already be coming out of the crisis which no more pain than they already endured.

[Hauldren Collider]

Blaming banks for greece's predicament is like blaming spray paint for killing teenagers that inhale it.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

This is not about blame, but about how to get out of the predicament that the nation found itself in. In other words, they have to re-create their institutions and deal with the consequences in a standard way (default), EU way failed.

[Bereta_Eder]

Mobius your goat is missing you


About the EU, its demise is an inevitability that has long loomed in the distance.
Greece diversifying its portfolio is simply hedging.

[Fake Boris]

What he said. The Greeks ****ed up their own country without anyone else's help. They kept voting for stupid and now they are where they deserve to be. Sure, I sure the politicians love desperately flailing around trying to find a scapegoat but the buck stops with the Greek people and they are the ones who are reaponsible.

Bull****.

You'll be the first to whine like a crybaby when the US defaults and you're asked to pick the slack.

[Bereta_Eder]

Basically, the thing was prejudged when the troikans started pushing for more pension cuts and various other austerity measures.
Gov fell instantly.
They are still at it, but syriza's evolution is transparency uber alles.

It is showing all of the negotiations, putting everything in plain view.

"You see the amount of austerity that has been imposed. Now they are demanding further cuts, you see we are strangling to make new payments, they still ask more. Is it that the way you want to proceed?"

Plus besides syriza are heroes of liberation movements (against nazis, against fascists) the route taken is very well established (multidimensional foreign policy - declutch from exisitng motives etc - regaining national sovereignity).

[I AM MOBIUS]

And Syriza is hungry for Putin's dick...

[Bereta_Eder]

YOU ARE HUNRY FOR BIGFOOT's DICK

[I AM MOBIUS]

And thus proving they have no shame and are basically the same as everyone else...

[Bereta_Eder]

What shame would they have?

[Bereta_Eder]

They probably spent their live hiding their political views because US/UK had imposed a romanian like ceausescu's regime and then backed the dictatorship. They brought it down.
They OWN democracy and aren't restrained by affiliations bullsh!t.