Exit Polls Suggest Syriza Has Won Greek Election

[Dinner]

I find Greeks just aren't bright enough to grasp that concept. They truly are their own worst enemies.

[Bereta_Eder]

So the bank says, I will reduce your income by 25% so it will be easier for you to pay and since you're such an untrustworthy borrower, I will give you the largest loan in history. Got it.

Oerdin, don't get carried away, the dufus here is you.

[Bereta_Eder]

BTW did the belgian gov voted against the transfer of mainly german and french private banks debts to its national coffers?
I thought so.

[Sava]

I have listed several examples in this thread. Like outlawing anyone else owning or operating a coal mine other than the state owned power company. Like granting legal monopolies to several other state owned firms for processing and refining several metals. The sole purpose of those regulations is to prevent competition, to protect a special interest's profits, and to raise prices.

There are at least two coal mines which could be developed and which investors say they would develop but which the government is refusing to grant permits for citing the monopoly protections law for the state owned power company. Those are lost jobs and taxes which won't be paid. If Greece was serious about lowering unemployment and getting the economy moving again it should be repealing official monopoly protections and allowing those new fields to be developed.

There is a lot the Greek government could do to help get the economy moving but not only are they not doing that but they are instead making matters worse by adding stupid new regulations. Like outlawing the construction of new hotels that are all inclusive. That is just about the only section of the tourism economy that was actually growing and increasing employment and they are killing it? These ****er are their own worst enemy.

Two coal mines?

You are fucking stupid.

[dannubis]

BTW did the belgian gov voted against the transfer of mainly german and french private banks debts to its national coffers?
I thought so.

What are you talking about?

Out of the 3 big belgian banks, one got bought by the French, 1 was/is fine and 1 got nationalized (it was a French/Belgian bank and the Belgian governement bent over in terms of guarantees that were given).

The big thing you can note is that Greece didn't have to pay a dime to support this nationalization.

[Bereta_Eder]

Greece had to squeeze its economy dry for the sake of the euro leading to the poverty of a large part of its population.

Crymieariver (SERB!)

The transfer of all greek debt to public hands was a decision by your gov too.

So far your support of wallonia costs you more btw

And you're a net recipient per capita of EU funds

[dannubis]

No Greece had to squeeze its economy dry because ordinary greeks refused to live within their means for 10 years.

So really, crymeariver...

Regarding, walloonia, yes I know.

[Bereta_Eder]

There were cleaning ladies that got paid more than PhD graduates because in some respects we are a good soviet republic (actually party partisanship does that) but the vast amount of money did not go to the average greek.
It went to selected party crownies parading in ministries with their cigars "doing business" which actually meant getting public contracts at 5 times their price because they were affiliated to one of the two ruling parties.

Most bribes involve german companies. German "justice" has given the culprits immunity (up to some weeks ago).

84 billions euros went to purchase (IMO unecessairy) german arms with german loans with german bribes to sold out greek politicians.

Some greeks lived beyond their means. I personally was chased twice a week to get all kinds of loans including a loan to go on holidays

Simply don't take it. But it's far from the norm

[dannubis]

I am not talking about "cleaning ladies":

I am talking about the bloated public sector,
I am talking about the governement spending on a level of social security it could never hope to sustain,
I am talking about the "inefficiency" of the tax collecting system (read corruption in all layers of the greek society)
...

you know, the white elephant in the room.

[Bereta_Eder]

The public sector wasn't particulalry bloated in personel. It was and is very wrongly allocating its resources.
It is saddled down with clientalism and lacks genuine meritocracy.

But even when the personel was cut, the way it was brought down was wrong.

Virtually all social security goes through the greek state so by slashing personel and funds you're actually slashing social care for vast amounts of the population. This was something that wasn't taken to account. That's why there's rehiring of medical stuff (the media will talk about the cleaning ladies. ok)

the tax system was and is injust. by superovertaxing the middle class and all SME businesses (the spinal cord of the greek economy) and in essence destroying them you're basically making sure non taxes will be collected (as has become the norm)

[Bereta_Eder]

My personal take on the matter is that in the beggining there was a genuine will from the troika to work together and arrange solutions. It made huge mistakes (if you're left wing they were intentional ) the major of which was to collaborate with the very bipartisan system which brought all this corruption.

So what the previous status quo did was to simply keep its protections and bring the whole economy, proportionally down, together.

You can't make a reform and open up closed and protected proffesions? simply cut wages. etc etc.

From a point on it became apparent that the previous political status quo was unwilling or unable to co-operate.
The creditors then simply focused on getting their money back virtually any way possible.

And then syriza came.

[Bereta_Eder]

Which is a left wing party. A clear clean one too.
With its ideological fixations but mainly having a democratic mandate to end austerity.

and that's where we are.

[Bereta_Eder]

Also the situation started with the subprimes in the US. You have to be blind not to see that. The euro was ill equipped to handle it and the greeks were caught with their pants down drinking pinacolada as usual.

But non co-operation had its positive sides too. Non confiscation of first domicile (unlike Spain and other countries), medical care, severly undegraded, still free etc etc

By leaving behind the previous status quo and its sick connection to established oligarchs, the people did the obvious choice.
The "enemies" to greeks wellbeing are both internal (established oligarchies and vested interests) and external (vulture like austerity clowns)

that's why you have tsipras who is a cutie face, dealing with them all

[Bereta_Eder]

and I'm going to the beach

[giblets]

Can you end austerity if other countries refuse to give you any money?