Congratulations Anti-vaxers. Measles spreading in California

[regexcellent]

It's called 'a bus'

You have to walk to/from the bus stop and wait for it to arrive, and there isn't one very close to where I live.

[Sava]

You know who invented walking? Poor people

[regexcellent]

It's more a matter of having to work on the bus system's timetable than the walking thing.

Driverless cars will be awesome.

[Sava]

Yes.

[Sava]

I love giving you crap about that stuff because, in reality, I'm way more elitist than you.

[Elok]

It's more a matter of having to work on the bus system's timetable than the walking thing.

Driverless cars will be awesome.

The Lima bus system works just fine, if you don't mind crowding. A new "bus" comes along literally every minute or so, for most routes. Clean, safe, efficient, and it's run by oodles of small independent companies so it'll give you a big old free-market boner. Think low-tech, man.

[Jon Miller]

Sounds similar to the Valparaiso buses (but the Valparaiso ones are not always clean and not always safe).

JM
(The most unsafe practices have to do with racing other buses to get to fares (how does the Lima bus system not have that?) and stopping suddenly anywhere in order to get a fare (does the Lima bus system have that?).)
(The cleanliness seems to depend on the driver, and how long the bus has been going since the start of the route.)

[pchang]

The real reason Republicans want to pick and choose their vaccines is because of the HPV vaccine.

[Berzerker]

The vaccine works by giving your immune system practice beating up weak (or dead) versions of the virus. Then it is stronger and can work on the real thing. There isn't any reason for someone without a vaccine to have a stronger immune system than someone with.

The person who doesn't need practice has the stronger immune system

Assuming there aren't any genetic defects that would leave a person with an inherent vulnerability (like an auto-immune disorder... e.g. lupus), the immune system is heavily dependent on environment factors.

When the flu kills a bunch of children do we say the victims had genetic defects? Clearly the children who survived had the better immune systems. If some of the children were saved by vaccinations, great for them, but their continuation in the gene pool reduces herd immunity.

Since we are still allowing natural selection to work on intelligence, this will all work out in the end.

We have all sorts of laws designed to protect those of low intelligence

I was going to make a long ranty post making this point, but you've made the point quite simply. Believing that people who survive diseases with antibiotics or vaccines are weaker or disobeying natural selection ignores a point: maybe those people are naturally better at getting people to treat them for diseases. In that case, we should select for such traits.

People who need anti-biotics and vaccinations to survive diseases have weaker immune systems than people who dont need medical interventions.

Who is ultimately has a better chance at survival? The life form who is naturally immune to a disease? Or the life form who is smart enough to figure out a way to defeat it?

The first, they dont have to waste any time on an arms race with nature

This is clearly a troll, so I'm done arguing with you. We shouldn't give people glasses, because what happens when we run out of glasses. That's fantastic.

I suspected it may be as well. If so, well done Berz.

Ty, Mobius gave me a C-, will you bring me up to a B please?

[Jon Miller]

The person who doesn't need practice has the stronger immune system

Practice is what builds a stronger immune system. Your immune system is likely to be stronger due to getting a vaccine than by surviving a disease.

Think of the difference between going to the gym or engaging in a marathon. Your body is more likely to be in peak physical condition if you train it rather than if you just test it. And the catastrophic failure rate for training is much smaller than the catastrophic failure rate for testing.

JM

[Dr Strangelove]

The people who actually aren't vaccinating their kids are mostly liberals, the new agey weirdo types that buy homeopathic remedies and go to the chiropractor.

Thinking the government shouldn't force people to get them is separate from that.

Lots of conservative people are into homeopathy ad chiropractic.

[Dr Strangelove]

Quote Originally Posted by Jon Miller View Post
The vaccine works by giving your immune system practice beating up weak (or dead) versions of the virus. Then it is stronger and can work on the real thing. There isn't any reason for someone without a vaccine to have a stronger immune system than someone with.

Not quite. The vaccine exposes your immune system to antigens nearly identical to the ones on the real pathogen. Your immune system senses the antigen and makes antibodies that will bind it. It continues to produce antibodies against the pathogen and / or also preserves the memory of how to produce the antibodies. When the real pathogen enters your body any remaining antibodies will bind it and assist the rest of your immune system in the disposal of the pathogen. Cells with the memory of the vaccine antigen will begin pumping out more antibodies. In summary the vaccine gives you a head start in sensing and beating off a disease and also primes your system to make a more rapid more vigorous response to the disease.

[Dinner]

The anti-vaxxers tend to be wealthier and white. Believe it or not Mississippi actually has the best childhood vaccination rates in the country (West Virginia is a close second). Both states have strict no exceptions from vaccinations requirements except for medical reasons. Both states instituted these policies due to a long history of poor public health policy resulting in a bad reputation so they have resisted attempts to weaken vaccination requirements while the other 48 states have all given in to ignorant anti-vaxxer pressure groups who claim a personal belief exemption. I am happy to say California has recently tightened up the standards once again requiring personal belief exemption seekers to at least get a doctor to sign a form saying that they were medically counciled by a doctor but still wish to not have their children vaccinated.

That will help but I would like to see a return of no exemptions except medical exemptions because the anti-vaxxers really are murderous shot stains who are killing children. This is especially bad for parents of children with compromised.used immune systems (kids being treated for cancer, etc...) because those are the kids the anti-vaxxers typically end up killing.

[Dr Strangelove]

Measles now confirmed in 15 states.

[Sava]

Ty, Mobius gave me a C-, will you bring me up to a B please?

Sure.