Congratulations Anti-vaxers. Measles spreading in California

[regexcellent]

**** that I want drones that is driverless cars taking me to work and then driving home so I don't have to pay for parking.

[FlameFlash]

Nah, where I am my pizza would have to be reheated

[FlameFlash]

**** that I want drones that is driverless cars taking me to work and then driving home so I don't have to pay for parking.

QFT

[DaShi]

Speaking of old Randy (why can't this guy get caught in a sex scandal) Rand Paul:

Washington (CNN)Sen. Rand Paul's blunt style led to a combative interview with a female reporter and controversial comments defending his insistence on voluntary vaccinations on Monday.

During the interview, with CNBC's Kelly Evans, Paul yawns, interrupts Evans and at one point motions for her to be quiet with a finger to his lips.

He also reproaches her for a "slanted" interview that he says "got no useful information because you were argumentative, and you started out with so many presuppositions that were incorrect."

Paul, who is an ophthalmologist, also asserts that he's heard of cases where vaccines have caused "profound mental disorders."

"I've heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines," Paul said. "I'm not arguing vaccines are a bad idea. I think they're a good thing. But I think the parents should have some input."

Asked for evidence of those claims, Paul campaign spokesman Sergio Gor didn't address them and instead said that while Paul largely supports vaccines, "many" should be voluntary.

"Dr. Paul believes that vaccines have saved lives, and should be administered to children. His children were all vaccinated. He also believes many vaccines should be voluntary and like most medical decisions, between the doctor and the patient, not the government," he wrote in an email to CNN.

The flap, however, suggests that Paul is still struggling with many of the same issues that have caused GOP operatives to view his likely presidential bid with some skepticism. His staff has long been aware of a perception that he's thin-skinned when met with criticism, and while his pointed responses are typically delivered with clear intent — as with when he attacked New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie as the "king of bacon" — they could complicate his personal appeal to voters, especially if he's pitted against a female candidate.

And though Paul has largely avoided such controversial topics in his effort to become more attractive to mainstream Republicans, they're nothing new for him and his father. Former Rep. Ron Paul said during his presidential run that "people have had some very, very serious reactions" from vaccines, and Paul is a member of a physicians' group that espouses the belief that vaccines can cause autism. Paul will be asked to answer for those past comments, and any future comments he makes, that are outside the mainstream.

Former Rep. Michele Bachmann may serve as a cautionary tale. She faced a firestorm of criticism for similar comments concerning the alleged negative impacts of vaccines during her 2012 presidential run. Her suggestion that vaccines can "put little childrens' lives at risk" during a debate contributed to growing skepticism surrounding her campaign, and an ultimately damning perception of her as too far outside the mainstream to represent the party.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/02/politics/rand-paul-vaccine-effects/index.html

[N35t0r]

**** that I want drones that is driverless cars taking me to work and then driving home so I don't have to pay for parking.

It's called 'a bus'

[I AM MOBIUS]

He's too entitled and privileged to sully himself riding a bus

[Sava]

**** that I want drones that is driverless cars taking me to work and then driving home so I don't have to pay for parking.

I can't wait for the driverless car revolution.

[FlameFlash]

So what is out there to support anti-vaxxers?

I had a coworker who would share his horror story about vaccinating his daughter while I was talking about my time off for going and getting my kids their latest shots. Seems she had some kind of reaction that caused her to lose all feeling in the arm or somesuch (he never would go into it much... except how bad vaccines were). His daughter has all her medical bills paid for by a trust fund created from the settlement.

Clearly there are horror stories out there that scare parents away. Clearly they're also the super-minority in occurrences, but you would think the talking heads would find these stories and parade them around (at least on Fox News).

Choosing is important though. We often skip the flu shots but get the big stuff like measles covered (would rather not roll the dice to be blocking the "right" strain. This year, for instance, the dice were rolled poorly.) The UK, for instance, doesn't do the chicken pox vaccine, correct? Why not? I had mine vaccinated against that.

Governments are getting involved. While Rand Paul sounds like he's full of it I do agree that we should be listening to our doctors more than our politicians on this matter. Of course, we should also be allowing our doctors to do their jobs... that includes discussing all possible treatments for every item. Like I hope, for instance, Steve Jobs' doctors told him he was being an idiot for refusing traditional treatments.

[N35t0r]

Yeah, a cousin of mine had some sort of brain issues (some swelling IIRC) as a side effect of a vaccination, and as of now (8 years and 3 surgeries later) she still has difficulty with fine motor skills on her hands, and has to use canes to walk. My aunt and uncle (biologist and agronomist, respectively) still had her smaller sister have those vaccinations. There is a risk, but the risk of not having them is greater.

[DaShi]

So what is out there to support anti-vaxxers?

I had a coworker who would share his horror story about vaccinating his daughter while I was talking about my time off for going and getting my kids their latest shots. Seems she had some kind of reaction that caused her to lose all feeling in the arm or somesuch (he never would go into it much... except how bad vaccines were). His daughter has all her medical bills paid for by a trust fund created from the settlement.

Clearly there are horror stories out there that scare parents away. Clearly they're also the super-minority in occurrences, but you would think the talking heads would find these stories and parade them around (at least on Fox News).

Choosing is important though. We often skip the flu shots but get the big stuff like measles covered (would rather not roll the dice to be blocking the "right" strain. This year, for instance, the dice were rolled poorly.) The UK, for instance, doesn't do the chicken pox vaccine, correct? Why not? I had mine vaccinated against that.

Governments are getting involved. While Rand Paul sounds like he's full of it I do agree that we should be listening to our doctors more than our politicians on this matter. Of course, we should also be allowing our doctors to do their jobs... that includes discussing all possible treatments for every item. Like I hope, for instance, Steve Jobs' doctors told him he was being an idiot for refusing traditional treatments.

The anti-vax support is about the same as support for homeopathic medicine. Both are based on flawed research, poor understanding of science, and superstition. Both also have large followings, especially in America where fads and pseudoscience are easily picked up and treated as legitimate. The big difference is that anti-vax is far more harmful.

[FlameFlash]

Explains why we're not crushing the concept with real facts...

[Dauphin]

The reason this is different is that the people getting vaccinated are minors. Minors are exempt from quite a few constitutional and other rights enjoyed by adults.

Hmmmm. Parents are asked to authorise medical procedures for their children all the time. Are you saying that parents aren't guardians of a child's rights in this context?

[N35t0r]

CPS has taken action against parents that let their 12 year olds walk home from school, but not vacciating them is OK?

[regexcellent]

CPS has taken action against parents that let their 12 year olds walk home from school, but not vacciating them is OK?

I don't think you're going to find much disagreement here that that's ridiculous.

[Dauphin]

CPS has taken action against parents that let their 12 year olds walk home from school, but not vacciating them is OK?

The issue there is one of neglect (the argument I would make to enforce vaccinations), not of rights to refuse treatment (which HC suggests does not exist for children - or their guardians).