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21st Century Chevauchee

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  • 21st Century Chevauchee

    A spinoff from my thread with C0ckney:

    Since everybody and their brother has a nuclear arsenal these days, direct conflict between major powers seems unlikely for the foreseeable future. The stakes are just too high. However, I can't really see countries in competition with each other resolving those differences entirely peacefully, either. One alternative I can envision is state-sponsored terrorism on a wide scale. We did it during the Cold War, sponsoring thug militias in this troubled country or that, but is there any particular reason it wouldn't work on a major country?

    During the Hundred Years' War, the English invented a tactic called the chevauchee. Basically, a chevauchee is when you sweep into a village, loot and burn it, then move on to the next village as quickly as possible. The goal is not to get money but to disrupt the economy, spread fear, and undermine people's trust in their sovereign. It seems to me that America is acutely vulnerable to this sort of attack; recent events have shown that relatively minor incidents can make us pretty crazy, and neither our law enforcement nor our infrastructure could handle heavy, coordinated attacks.

    For example, a handful of men supplied with explosives could easily shut down a major airport for a week, killing at least a thousand in the process and causing direct economic damage in the millions. Indirect effects could well be far more costly, especially if you can arrange to hit multiple airports on the same day. This has not happened already, AFAICT, because terrorist rings have difficulty acquiring that much explosive secretly. A government--say, Russia or China, or even Iran or North Korea--could supply that, plus logistical aid. Keeping their own part deniable would be trickier, but Mexico right next door has a ready supply of "expendable" thugs. This kind of "war" would be cheap and incredibly cost-effective. The terror-spreading aspect would be far easier today, with modern mass communications.

    There is precedent for this, in that chevauchees (IIUC) started because the French were not directly assailable in their castles. Similar tactics were used during the Peloponnesian War. In general, if direct military conflict with the enemy are not feasible, terror raids make sense; why should the nuclear age be different?
    1011 1100
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  • #2
    This strikes me as a tactic in war rather than a type of war. If you're already engaged in open hostilities with an enemy, then there's relatively little risk in choosing this kind of tactic (and it might be better than others). But if you're nominally at peace with an enemy, then you risk starting a war you may not be able to win.
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    • #3
      i basically agree with lori here. in the wake of 9/11 america invaded two countries, one of which had not even the faintest connection with the attack itself, so it seems very unlikely that any country would risk a similar attack.
      "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

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      • #4
        one of which had not even the faintest connection with the attack itself, so it seems very unlikely that any country would risk a similar attack.
        And we see how well the Obama doctrine has worked in the region with ISIS.
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        • #5
          Neither of the countries we invaded had (non-imaginary) nuclear weapons. Every country I mentioned either does, or may soon get them.
          1011 1100
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          • #6
            Yes, but the thing is if America proved that another country had carried out a mass attack on US soil, then the US would HAVE to react militarily. How long do you think the government would remain in office if say Russia blew up a few thousand American citizens in America, and the government did nothing to strike back?

            It would be insanity to set something like that in motion, because there's almost no scenario where it doesn't escalate. Once it starts escalating then there's no guarantees that it doesn't end up with a nuclear resolution.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Elok View Post

              For example, a handful of men supplied with explosives could easily shut down a major airport for a week, killing at least a thousand in the process
              No. They couldn't. Not "easily"... and probably not at all.

              Examine the Westgate mall attacks. That's probably the most recent event that most resembles what you describe.

              An airport is not easily defended. Also, if we're talking a "handful" of men, there's no way they're gonna kill a thousand people at an airport. Any attack at an airport would be met with a swift response. There wouldn't be time for the terrorists to control a crowd of a thousand people, let alone systematically execute them. Killing people takes time... and ammo. Plus, after that first shot, everyone is going to run away. Good luck even finding a thousand people at the airport who are going to be nice, compliant hostages.

              If you have 50 navy seals with an unlimited budget, maybe you could pull it off. But 10-15 militants?

              BTW, where are they getting their guns and ammo? And who are these militants going to be? Where are they coming from? How do they get into the US?

              There's a reason the Westgate attacks happened in Kenya and not Kansas.
              To us, it is the BEAST.

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              • #8
                I said explosives, not guns, and nothing about hostages. Not going into details b/c I have no particular desire to wind up on anybody's watch list. Use your imagination.
                1011 1100
                Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                • #9
                  I don't see how equipping your elite terrorist force with explosives is going to get your bodycount to 1,000.

                  You'd have to individually wire 1,000 people with explosives, or take out a skyscraper, to get that kind of body count.

                  Massive car bombs, like IED's made from old artillery shells, can maybe kill a few dozen people... if detonated at a crowded marketplace.

                  Look at the OKC bombing. McVeigh had thousands of pounds of explosives in a vehicle. He got to 168.
                  To us, it is the BEAST.

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                  • #10
                    I find it somewhat intriguing that you use "relatively minor" in your analogy.
                    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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                    • #11
                      Haven't people been trying to do this against Israel?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SlowwHand View Post
                        I find it somewhat intriguing that you use "relatively minor" in your analogy.
                        He's also a bit mistaken about America's reaction to terror attacks, IMO.

                        Look at the Boston Marathon bombing. The city was disrupted that whole week.

                        But then they caught the guy and everything went back to normal.

                        America has two responses to such attacks: apathy and rage
                        To us, it is the BEAST.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kentonio View Post
                          Yes, but the thing is if America proved that another country had carried out a mass attack on US soil, then the US would HAVE to react militarily. How long do you think the government would remain in office if say Russia blew up a few thousand American citizens in America, and the government did nothing to strike back?

                          It would be insanity to set something like that in motion, because there's almost no scenario where it doesn't escalate. Once it starts escalating then there's no guarantees that it doesn't end up with a nuclear resolution.
                          The trick would be proving it definitively, and being in a position where you can strike back. Putin is getting away with something much more outrageous and blatant than what I have in mind, albeit it's in Ukraine and nobody really gives all that much of a damn. Suppose, for example, that we can link a terror attack to a man who was known to be an agent of the Korean government, but the DPRK says he went rogue years ago and denies any responsibility. How much evidence do we need to invade? Bear in mind that we are effectively guaranteeing the annihilation of Seoul from the artillery they keep on hair-trigger.

                          Now, you're right that there's no guarantee that it won't end up with nukes; however, I really can't envision a scenario where hostility between powers is restricted to economic games and proxy wars. Cyber-attacks, certainly, but the thing is, even the most devastating cyber-attack doesn't kill anyone directly, and it's nowhere near as terrifying as actual terror.
                          1011 1100
                          Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Elok View Post
                            How much evidence do we need to invade? Bear in mind that we are effectively guaranteeing the annihilation of Seoul from the artillery they keep on hair-trigger.
                            You answered your own question, sort of.

                            No one is invading North Korea... not unless someone invents a deflector shield that can save Seoul.
                            To us, it is the BEAST.

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                            • #15
                              Okay, reduce the body count to 250. I don't know a lot about the power of explosives. The number of casualties is relatively unimportant, since (with apologies for callousness) most of them are going to be just average travelers. The fear and economic disruption would be far more powerful.
                              1011 1100
                              Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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