Israeli Police Beat 15 year old American Citizen

[The Mad Monk]

Post #380

Also answer me this, because it seems to have stumped TMM:

Why is 29 dead Israelis preferable to you than only 2?

I answered you, you're just not willing to accept it. The risk is part and parcel of any military operation.

[The Mad Monk]

So you accept the invasion then, if they go in to free them of Hamas?

[Sava]

Hamas, so awesome at blending in with the non-Hamas population... to think they are so good at that but so terrible at aiming rockets.

[DinoDoc]

So what you're saying is that you would actually prefer higher casualties among your population?

A bit of a bum deal when you live in a country where all of you are forced to serve in the military.

Can you name a country on Earth that would suffer thousands of rocket attacks across most of the country without a military response being launched?

[Sava]

rocket attacks

still a bergdahl truther?

you mope

[Dinner]

It was, by using Iron Dome. Clearly violent incursions don't work because this is the nth time they've gone in and nothing has changed - the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and yet expect a different outcome...

Do something different. Like cut Hamas' knees from underneath it. Someone posted an interesting article link about how Hamas was elected on empty promises after the monopolistic corruption of Fatah - turn the people away from them so that when it comes to the next elections they vote for someone different...

The true victims here are the Palestinian civilians, not the 1% of the population or whatever makes up Hamas...

1) The iron dome, like any other defensive system is not 100% effective and even when it does knock out the incoming missile the debree still hits the ground and often destroys things or kills people. This is clearly not a solution.

2) The raids ARE effective as you see rocket launches decrease by an order of magnitude after them. It turns out destroying Hamas supply of rockets and their launchers does indeed reduce the number of rockets fired at Israel.

3) Changing hearts and minds is a nice idea, often tried, and very rarely successful. How did that work out in Ireland for the British? Or the US in Vietnam? Or Iraq for that matter. Yes, in the short run it can effect the margins but more often then not it takes a really long time (we're talking generations) and the more indoctrinated the people the harder it is to change them. Unfortunately the Palestinians are one of the most brain washed and indoctrinated people on Earth with kids trained from birth to be suicide bombers, that all Jews must be killed, and how glorious it is to be a martyr. By all means, over the long term try to show them another way but it is very hard to break such long term exposure to brain washing so this isn't a real alternative at least if you're expecting peace in the next 60-80 years.

4) I can agree that Hamas is making victims of the vast majority but the reality is the vast majority continue to support Hamas so there truly is no real difference in my mind. I have no sympathy for Germans who supported the Nazi war effort when they got bombed and I sure as hell won't shed a tear for people who support terrorist organizations like Hamas. Yes, there is some portion who don't support Hamas but how do you protect that minority without dealing with the Hamas supporting majority? Answer: You don't. Just as in WW2 when they were all Germans and god can sort them out the same standard has to apply here. There is no practical way to do anything else but maybe you can come up with a suggestion which no one else in the history of warfare has ever thought of.

[Dinner]

I answered you, you're just not willing to accept it. The risk is part and parcel of any military operation.

Yes, it has been answered multiple times. He doesn't like the answers so he wants to pretend no one has responded to him yet while he continues to run around claiming everyone who disgrees with him is a racist. It's a sad position he has decided to take.

[Sava]

regarding Hamas rocket "attacks"

By the end of December 2008, a total of 15 people had been killed by Palestinian rockets since attacks began in 2001

In 2006, the Israeli Ministry of Defense viewed the Qassams as "more a psychological than physical threat."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket

Just DD lying again. He's does it a lot more than BK.

[The Mad Monk]

At what cost to BOTH sides!!?

It needs to be done democratically to have any legitimacy.

Why does everything have to be a military solution with you Americans!?

If you want a true and lasting peace in the Middle East, it won't be through a military solution. Northern Ireland is a good recent example of this - encouraged by an American president no less...

Democracy put Hamas in there in the first place. how do you suggest we democratically remove them?

Re: Northern Ireland -- remind me, how many rocket attacks did they launch on Great Britain?

[Sava]

Toaster fires have killed more people than Hamas rockets.

n 1998, toasters caused 2200 home fires, 20 deaths

http://www.consumerwatch.com/household/appliances/toasters.php

[Dinner]

At no point have I ever suggested not mounting a military response.

Yes, you did. I quoted it in post #418. You said they should just sit defensively and rely upon their anti-missile defenses as if that would some how be 100% effective.

[Sava]

I love how conservatives (and oerdin's racist dumb ass) just can't wait to justify costly (in blood and treasure) military operations for a threat less dangerous than toaster fires.

[C0ckney]

The West Bank -- which hasn't been shooting rockets, btw -- has a similar HDI to Egypt, Syria and Jordan. So it really doesn't have to be this way.

you mean the west bank where the israeli appropriation of land and division of palestinian sections into tiny, ungovernable 'bantustans' continues unabated. oncle boris even posted a map in this thread; you've no excuse for not knowing. therefore, it must be that you want to the palestinians to be dispossessed and forced off their lands by jewish invaders and colonisers, while denying them any possibility of resistance.

[C0ckney]

Re: Northern Ireland -- remind me, how many rocket attacks did they launch on Great Britain?

are you serious? do you honestly not know about the IRA bombing campaign both in northern ireland and great britain?

[Dinner]

If you want a true and lasting peace in the Middle East, it won't be through a military solution. Northern Ireland is a good recent example of this - encouraged by an American president no less...

It only took 80 years.