The Face of the 2nd Amendment

[Dinner]

A few links about how the NRA is funded or, as Forbes put it, the NRA-Gun Industrial Complex.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1

http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2012/07/23/the-nra-industrial-complex/

http://www.thenation.com/blog/171776/does-nra-represent-gun-manufacturers-or-gun-owners

[Sava]

unlimited dark money

oooh that sounds scary


and also

racist

Why's the "dark" money got to be bad? Why can't the light money be bad?

[Sava]

It was 90% of Americans and 74% of NRA members so I was really close with my ~3/4ths comment.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...rcent-america/

I'm going to not believe you. Here are my reasons:

1. Gun owners need to be horrible bogeyman (bogey is worse than boogey... what do you call fun dancing? boogey... what do you call an unidentified and possible enemy craft? a bogey... also, in golf, bogey is bad; double bogey worse)

2. You said it. If I were to say the same thing, it would be correct. But when you say it, its wrong.

3. Racism (I needed a third because numbering things is stupid if you only have two things)

[Felch]

It was 90% of Americans and 74% of NRA members so I was really close with my ~3/4ths comment.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...rcent-america/

I realize you're responding to Sava, but it would be really helpful if we could find out how the survey was worded, and what context the question came in. It's easy to swing a survey by asking leading questions or wording a question in one way or another.

For example, if a survey starts out asking questions like:

• Are you concerned about violence in your community?
• Do you want the government to do more about violence?
• Are you worried about mass shootings in schools?
• Do you support universal background checks on firearm sales?

You'd get different results than if you asked:

• Are you concerned about civil asset forfeiture?
• Are you worried about government surveillance?
• Do you trust the government not to violate your civil rights?
• Do you support mandatory background checks before transferring a firearm to a family member?

Context and wording are very important. If you plant thoughts of mass murders in peoples' minds, they'll reach for whatever security blanket you offer. If you make them think about the threat of government surveillance or petty abuses of power, they'll reach a different conclusion.

[Sava]

My principles are so weak, they only seem like great ideas when worded 'properly'.

[regexcellent]

When you say "universal background checks" people don't think of the implications that if my brother picks up my gun, and shoots it at the range, that's an illegal transfer under the proposed law, even in my presence.

[Dinner]

Felch, I'm not sure but it was done by " Republican pollster Frank Luntz’s organization, Luntz Global, conducted a May 2012 poll". Sadly, it appears the Republican pollster has made the poll disappear in the last two years either because it is so old or because he didn't like the political ramifications of the results and wanted to hide them. Given that their website still has polls from 10 years ago up I'm going to guess it is the later.

[Sava]

When you say "universal background checks" people don't think of the implications that if my brother picks up my gun, and shoots it at the range, that's an illegal transfer under the proposed law, even in my presence.

I suspect the reality is not this^^.

[Dinner]

Here's another poll, by a different company, done almost a year later which had nearly identical results:

More recently, according to the results of a national January 2013 poll presented in the March 21, 2013, New England Journal of Medicine, 84 percent of gun owners and 74 percent of NRA members supported requiring a universal background-check system for all gun sales. The poll was conducted by GfK Knowledge Networks for researchers led by Colleen L. Barry, an associate professor of health policy and management at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2013/apr/04/lee-leffingwell/lee-leffingwell-says-polls-show-90-percent-america/

[Dinner]

And, of course, still others from the same source.

The January Pew poll found 85 percent of all respondents in favor of making private gun sales and sales at gun shows subject to background checks, with comparable support from Republicans, Democrats and independents, Pew said. The margin of error for the entire sample was 2.9 percentage points.

The CBS/New York Times poll indicated that 92 percent of all the respondents favor background checks for all potential gun buyers. The poll had an overall margin of error of three percentage points.

PolitiFact Georgia, looking into a similar claim about support for universal checks, noted a Fox News poll conducted Jan. 15-17, 2013, of 1,008 registered voters. Ninety one percent of respondents said they favor "requiring criminal background checks on all gun buyers, including those buying at gun shows and private sales."

A Quinnipiac University national survey of 772 registered voters, taken Jan. 30 through Feb. 4, 2013, found 92 percent supporting background checks for all gun buyers. The survey, pointed out by Everhart, had a margin of error of 2.3 percentage points.
A subsequent Quinnipiac University survey, taken of 1,944 registered voters from Feb. 27, 2013 through March 4, 2013, found 88 percent in favor of background checks for all gun buyers. The poll had a margin of error of 2.2 percentage points.

[Dinner]

Felch, that's almost half a dozen polls from different companies from across the spectrum all agreeing. I think we're well beyond any push polling results. It's time to accept that the numbers are real.

[Dinner]

I suspect the reality is not this^^.

It's not. It means all gun sales public or private and, generally, this means all sales would have to go through licensed gun dealers. An owner can still let someone use his gun at the range so reg is completely wrong about that.

[Sava]

It's not. It means all gun sales public or private and, generally, this means all sales would have to go through licensed gun dealers. An owner can still let someone use his gun at the range so reg is completely wrong about that.

BUT IT SAYS TRANSFGER AND WHEN I HAND MY GUN TO HIM IUTS FTRANSFERING

THANKS OBAMA

[kentonio]

I suspect the reality is not this^^.

I don't think you understand. If universal background checks ever become a reality then if you so much as look at my gun, a team of FEMA commando ninjas will come smashing through the windows and gun us both down, before locking all our family members in concentration camps. I'm fairly sure there's a death panel involved somewhere too, but that might be just about ammo.

[Sava]

more like obamanation camps