Al B Sure, please reconsider your outlook on life

[Kidlicious]

The total figure for the severely mentally ill is higher than for non-ill people, so I'm not understanding your logic.

Because you aren't a smart man.

[Sava]

Murder is disproportionately committed by men far more than everyone else... including those with "severe mental illness".

Should men have their rights restricted?

(or for Kid: should men have their already restricted rights even more restricted)

[Lorizael]

Should I assume that you're still arguing with kentonio even though you're quoting me?

[Kidlicious]

Murder is disproportionately committed by men far more than everyone else... including those with "severe mental illness".

Should men have their rights restricted?

(or for Kid: should men have their already restricted rights even more restricted)

You really have to ask this from someone who gets off being tied up by women?

[AAAAAAAAH!]

I don't need a psych eval for calling someone a slut dip****.

I'm beginning to think you do.

[Sava]

Should I assume that you're still arguing with kentonio even though you're quoting me?

The "questions" are for kentonio, yes. But you can assume whatever you want

[Sava]

someone who gets off being tied up by women?

Who does? ken?

I missed that.

[Kidlicious]

I'm beginning to think you do.

[Lorizael]

...someone who gets off being tied up by women?

Is there something wrong with the above?

[kentonio]

I'm well aware of the stats on murder. Your opinion on the matter doesn't agree with the facts.

If you want to unsuccessfully make that case, I'll be happy to watch, point, and laugh.

Look, I don't have a dog in this fight, I just went and did some research yesterday which showed a very limited number of studies existed but which seemed to conclude that the severely mentally ill accounted for around 6% of the population but committed around 10% of homicides. If you have found some studies that disprove this, then great it'd be really interesting to see them.

First... what does "murder in general" mean. Define this.

Total homicide rate.

"disproportionally "... define this... or rather, define HOW disproportionate.

6% population, 10% homicides.

As Lori pointed out, a greater proportion of black people commit crimes than so called "severely mentally ill" people.

By your logic, all black people should be banned from owning guns... just by virtue of their skin color.

Your premise was stillborn.

Except it isn't because the disproportionate level of homicides committed by blacks can be attributed directly to the also disproportionate rate of blacks living in poverty. Lori (I believe) was trying to make the point that as the severely mentally ill are also disproportionately represented in the poverty figures that the two things are comparable.

This to me is wrong simply because there's no logical reason for a black person to commit an act of violence rather than a white person, whereas there is a logical argument to be made that someone not in control of their mental faculties would be more likely to commit a violent act than a person who was in full mental control.

I could be totally wrong, and as I said above if there's studies I haven't seen which contradict my conclusion then awesome. Learning new stuff is great. If all you're doing though is saying that due to the poverty issue everything else should be ignored, then that doesn't actually tell us anything at all.

[Kidlicious]

Is there something wrong with the above?

Is there anything wrong with wanting to tie up women?

[Sava]

Total homicide rate.

Of what? The world? America? The UK? The tribal regions of Afghanistan?

Do drone kills count as "murder"?

I could be totally wrong

I'd use a stronger word than "could".

I don't see any conceivable reason why "severe" mental illness should be stigmatized... and you should feel bad for doing it.

The overwhelming vast majority of the people who such illness never commit a violent crime and are for more likely to be victims than perpetrators.

[kentonio]

Total figure for what?

My point was this: schizophrenic individuals are a small subset of the population, but the ones most likely to commit violent acts. Given that segment of the population, there's a certain percentage chance that one of them will commit mass murder in a year. If you look at any other group of mentally ill that is larger than the schizophrenic segment, then the percentage chance for an individual goes down, because you're dividing the same number of mass murders into a larger group.

What this means is that the comparison I was making was in your favor. Virtually any other comparison you could choose to make would not be in your (non-crazy) favor. The odds of a random UKer murdering a family member are either the same or greater than the odds of a mentally ill individual committing mass murder. Thus, it is just as plausible for me to say that you are a potential murderer as it is for you to say that Kid, BK, or Speer are potential mass murderers.

I hadn't noticed that you were sneakily comparing the figures for mass murder with those for normal murders. Well done, I concede your point and you can now advance to Internet Pedant Level 2. I believe you also get a badge.

[kentonio]

Of what? The world? America? The UK? The tribal regions of Afghanistan?

The US. Then again as you apparently can't be arsed to open the thread where I actually went and posted the research I found, I see little point in repeating it all in here.

[Lorizael]

I hadn't noticed that you were sneakily comparing the figures for mass murder with those for normal murders. Well done, I concede your point and you can now advance to Internet Pedant Level 2. I believe you also get a badge.

My first post on the matter was:

The odds that any one of them goes on to become a mass murderer are probably about the same as the odds of you killing your significant other in a fit of rage.

I don't think I was being particularly sneaky. I do think you could murder your loved ones, though.