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  • 2nd Amendment trumps free enterprise


    (Reuters) - A Maryland gun shop owner has dropped his plan to be the first in the United States to sell a so-called "smart gun" after a backlash that included death threats.

    Andy Raymond, co-owner of Engage Armament in Rockville, a Washington suburb, said he was trying to protect his business by reversing his decision to sell the Armatix iP1 .22-caliber handgun, which electronically limits the ability to fire the weapon.

    "I can't have my shop burned down," Raymond said on Friday. "I have people to look out for."

    He said late Thursday on his Facebook page that he would back off the planned sales.

    The gun is implanted with an electronic chip that allows it to be fired only if the shooter is wearing a watch that communicates with it through a radio signal. If the gun is moved more than 10 inches from the watch, it will not fire.

    Gun rights activists contend the smart gun violates their right to bear arms under the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

    Raymond said he received death threats among the hundreds of phone calls protesting his decision to sell smart guns.

    "You're going to get what's coming to you," was among the messages he received, Raymond said.

    "They told my business partner they would burn down the shop. I try to be reasonable with people but I guess I made a mistake."

    The Oak Tree Gun Club near Los Angeles said it would sell the "smart guns" this year but the weapons were removed from shelves after protests and threats from gun advocates. The club owners later denied they ever planned to sell them.

    Raymond said he planned to sell the German-made guns initially "on principle" because he believed in the right of gun ownership.

    "You have freedom," he said. "It shouldn't be compromised."

    Armatix and the National Rifle Association, the U.S. gun lobby, did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

    Opponents fear that sale of smart guns would trigger a New Jersey law requiring that all guns sold in the state be equipped with smart technology within three years after it becomes available.

    President Barack Obama said he supports smart gun technology but he has run into criticism from the NRA.

    The guns could lead to "a ban on all guns that do not possess the government-required technology," said a blog by the NRA's political arm.

    (Editing by Ian Simpson and Jeffrey Benkoe)




    ^^I'm milking this image for all it's worth!


    So pick a side... capitalism? or guns?

    Apparently, the private sale of "smart" guns violates the 2nd Amendment.

    Honestly, I try not to view gun owners as a bunch of terrorist militiamen... each one of them a Lovecrafting horror, hell bent on starting a race war. I say to myself, these are just normal people... enjoying their little hobby... the only hobby "constitutionally protected" because the some of the founders were clinging to their wet dream of decentralized utopia... which would allow them to rape all the slaves they wanted. And guns? You needed one. It was a way of life. Modern institutions were a long ways away. The police couldn't get to you because they didn't exist. The defense of a nation was handled by "well regulated militias".

    There's a reason the individual right to bear arms wasn't explicitly in the Bill of Rights (the activist judges who ruled on the Heller case hadn't yet invented the individual right to bear arms). There's a reason US defense strategy evolved to include a standing army. There's a reason modern institutions came about. There's a reason I'm starting every sentence in this paragraph with "there's a reason". I'm confident it will come to me soon.


    Also, when did the smiley become ?
    To us, it is the BEAST.

  • #2
    So pick a side
    Freedom of association does not trump the second amendment. One is free to associate, and one is free to allow or ban guns on your premises. You are not free to tell someone else on his premises to get rid of his gun.

    As for smart guns? Yeah, they are a violation of the 2nd, in that it infringes on the right to private property, to keep and to bear arms. You have the right to be able to buy and to sell your firearms. We don't restrict any other property to 'just one owner'. Why do people try to do it to guns? Because they believe people do not have a right to buy and to own guns, and this is a stealth way to prevent them from doing so.
    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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    • #3
      I'm not going to argue with BK, since it's a senseless enterprise, but a smart gun will not be restricted to a single owner. You either sell it with your watch or pair it with the one belonging to the new owner.
      Graffiti in a public toilet
      Do not require skill or wit
      Among the **** we all are poets
      Among the poets we are ****.

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      • #4
        If we're going to have a Judge Dredd gun, I want a gun that blows the hand off of unauthorized users.
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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        • #5
          Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
          If we're going to have a Judge Dredd gun, I want a gun that blows the hand off of unauthorized users.
          I would settle with calling the police while simulating a jam.
          Graffiti in a public toilet
          Do not require skill or wit
          Among the **** we all are poets
          Among the poets we are ****.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
            We don't restrict any other property to 'just one owner'.
            Pharmaceuticals
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            • #7
              Software.
              AC2- the most active SMAC(X) community on the web.
              JKStudio - Masks and other Art

              No pasarán

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              • #8
                Pharmaceuticals
                It's probably not a wise idea to buy opened pharmaceuticals, but yes, it can be done. Nobody's going to blink an eye if you sell your aspirin to someone who needs it.
                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                • #9
                  Software.
                  Nothing stops me from selling it second-hand.
                  Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                  "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                  2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                    It's probably not a wise idea to buy opened pharmaceuticals, but yes, it can be done. Nobody's going to blink an eye if you sell your aspirin to someone who needs it.
                    Federal law makes it illegal for any person who does not have a license to write prescriptions to sell or give a prescription drug to another person


                    A prescription drug can be sold illegally in a number of ways. For instance, a person who has a valid prescription can be convicted of illegally selling drugs if he sells or gives his drugs to someone else.
                    Defendants can be convicted of selling prescription drugs illegally if a prosecutor proves simply that a defendant knowingly sold or simply gave (or agreed to sell or give) a prescription drug to someone who lacked a valid prescription.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Buster's Uncle View Post
                      Software.
                      Windows (any version) OEM

                      One active install per cd key per hardware configuration.
                      To us, it is the BEAST.

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                      • #12
                        For instance, a person who has a valid prescription can be convicted of illegally selling drugs if he sells or gives his drugs to someone else.
                        How does this apply to my example of Aspirin?
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                        • #13
                          Windows (any version) OEM

                          One active install per cd key per hardware configuration.
                          Doesn't stop people from buying it and reselling it. Nor is it illegal to package it in with the laptop that it was installed on after I'm finished using it.

                          Nice try, but this 'one gun one owner' thing is unenforceable. Like all unconstitutional laws.
                          Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                          "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                          2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                            How does this apply to my example of Aspirin?
                            Why would you give an example as stupid and disingenuous as aspirin to counter my example of pharmaceuticals as property that is restricted to "just one owner"?

                            Fine, I'll refine my example to "prescription pharmaceuticals"
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sava View Post
                              http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A410SD20140502



                              ^^I'm milking this image for all it's worth!


                              So pick a side... capitalism? or guns?

                              Apparently, the private sale of "smart" guns violates the 2nd Amendment.

                              Honestly, I try not to view gun owners as a bunch of terrorist militiamen... each one of them a Lovecrafting horror, hell bent on starting a race war. I say to myself, these are just normal people... enjoying their little hobby... the only hobby "constitutionally protected" because the some of the founders were clinging to their wet dream of decentralized utopia... which would allow them to rape all the slaves they wanted. And guns? You needed one. It was a way of life. Modern institutions were a long ways away. The police couldn't get to you because they didn't exist. The defense of a nation was handled by "well regulated militias".

                              There's a reason the individual right to bear arms wasn't explicitly in the Bill of Rights (the activist judges who ruled on the Heller case hadn't yet invented the individual right to bear arms). There's a reason US defense strategy evolved to include a standing army. There's a reason modern institutions came about. There's a reason I'm starting every sentence in this paragraph with "there's a reason". I'm confident it will come to me soon.


                              Also, when did the smiley become ?
                              The gun activists are worried because of a law in New Jersey where if smart guns are sold in any part of the country, then guns can only be sold in NJ if they are smart guns.
                              “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                              "Capitalism ho!"

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