Arizona's new anti-gay law.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yes he's in the clear as long as it can't be proved that every black person was turned away.
At least he wouldn't be paying to defend himself.

And in all honesty if the baker turned down a gay request claiming the guy was a douche and show that he had previously baked cakes for other gays, he would be in the clear also.

I attempt not to respond to Ben-like over and over against dumb questions whose answers are obvious. I'd suggest you back out while you still can.

[Felch]

I attempt not to respond to Ben-like over and over against dumb questions whose answers are obvious. I'd suggest you back out while you still can.

Yeah, the answer is obvious. It's an obvious example of the double standard that you're imposing on other people. You, as a lawyer, can take or reject whatever client you choose. But if I'm baking cakes, I have to bake them for everybody, since I'm in the "public sphere."

Back out while I can? Do your worst. Lawyers disgust me.

[DinoDoc]

Back out while I can? Do your worst. Lawyers disgust me.

They loose their soul at the graduation ceremony.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, the answer is obvious. It's an obvious example of the double standard that you're imposing on other people. You, as a lawyer, can take or reject whatever client you choose. But if I'm baking cakes, I have to bake them for everybody, since I'm in the "public sphere."

Yes, as long as it's on an individual basis and not globally for reasons of race, or sex.

Holy crap is Felch descending to the Beniverse with every single post.

[MrFun]

When did Felch turn into a libertarian anyway?

[Felch]

Holy crap is Felch descending to the Beniverse with every single post.

Living in a world run by lawyers is enough to drive anybody crazy.

When did Felch turn into a libertarian anyway?

When I started loving weed and guns?

[Felch]

Speaking of weed, why is it okay for my private life to be a basis for discrimination? This isn't just a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. I've had to pee in cups prior to employment. Even if my drug use doesn't intrude on the public sphere, employers are allowed to use it as a reason not to hire me. The government has the authority to imprison me for possessing marijuana. But I don't freak out about it. If somebody owns a business and doesn't like potheads, and doesn't want to hire them, that's their business. I, in turn, should be free to start my own business that only hires potheads.

The point of all this, MrFun is that my personal experiences - being denied employment, being arrested and jailed, being harassed by police - my experiences makes me a little less sympathetic to all the whining over a wedding cake. Even DOMA pales in comparison to the WoD. It's not like Congress appropriates billions of dollars to stamp out homosexuality.

[MrFun]

Speaking of weed, why is it okay for my private life to be a basis for discrimination? This isn't just a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. I've had to pee in cups prior to employment. Even if my drug use doesn't intrude on the public sphere, employers are allowed to use it as a reason not to hire me. The government has the authority to imprison me for possessing marijuana. But I don't freak out about it. If somebody owns a business and doesn't like potheads, and doesn't want to hire them, that's their business. I, in turn, should be free to start my own business that only hires potheads.

The point of all this, MrFun is that my personal experiences - being denied employment, being arrested and jailed, being harassed by police - my experiences makes me a little less sympathetic to all the whining over a wedding cake. Even DOMA pales in comparison to the WoD. It's not like Congress appropriates billions of dollars to stamp out homosexuality.

I'm all in favor of legalization of marijuana, but this argument of yours does not make any sense.

I would appreciate a serious response to my post about how in fact, gay people were and still are, made to be second class citizens in large parts of America. You know, considering your ignorant remark that gay people have never been made to be second class citizens in America.

[Felch]

I would appreciate a serious response to my post about how in fact, gay people were and still are, made to be second class citizens in large parts of America.

Is it illegal to be gay? Can cops arrest you and seize your assets if they catch you with homosexual paraphernalia? Can a prospective employer take your bodily fluids to a lab to investigate how you spend your free time, and then deny you employment over it? If you're second class, what does that make me? Third? Fourth?

You know, considering your ignorant remark that gay people have never been made to be second class citizens in America.

If I said that, it's obviously untrue. Obviously there was governmental persecution of gays in the past. But today things are largely different.

[DaShi]

Felch, smoke some weed and relax.

[Felch]

On it.

[pchang]

Is it illegal to be gay? Can cops arrest you and seize your assets if they catch you with homosexual paraphernalia? Can a prospective employer take your bodily fluids to a lab to investigate how you spend your free time, and then deny you employment over it? If you're second class, what does that make me? Third? Fourth?



If I said that, it's obviously untrue. Obviously there was governmental persecution of gays in the past. But today things are largely different.

Now it becomes clear. We can't have Gay rights getting in line ahead of Stoner rights.

[Felch]

I am honestly sick of the liberal antipathy towards stoners. There's far more money wasted, far more twisting of the Bill of Rights, and far more lives cruelly harmed by America's war on drugs than there was with the DoMA. They're both messed up, but one is a multi-billion dollar catastrophe that costs lives and fortunes, while the other is mostly about tax penalties and hospital visitation rights. They're orders of magnitude apart in terms of importance.

As far as the Arizona law goes, I just feel very strongly that people should be free to refuse any offer made to them. Nobody should ever be forced to bake a wedding cake. It's a petty tyranny, and a weird sort of bullying. Even if this results in some problems, those problems are the price we pay to live in a free country.

[MrFun]

I'm liberal and I'm in favor of legalizing marijuana. What liberal antipathy are you talking about?

[Aeson]

Is not baking somebody a wedding cake the same thing as forcing them to abandon their home? Where do we draw the line on this? Are there any other thoughtcrimes we need to arrest and imprison people for?

A thoughtcrime is when thinking something is illegal. Denying services to someone is obviously more than just thinking something.

As for your slippery slope, yes, there is a lot of gray area. That's really the point.