Obama: 1in 5 women have been raped in the US

[rah]

People desperately trying to raise public consciousness about young women being sexually abused and raped in colleges probably massaged the figures a bit to make it stand out more in news cycles that only bother covering the most extreme stories. Your instinctive response is to scream that they're liars and completely ignore the massive issue they are fighting tirelessly to stop.

This was my issue. They probably would have had numbers you couldn't ignore regardless. But by massaging the numbers they did open the door for people to criticize and take the focus off what their goal was.
But from my experience, its very common that when you authorize a survey tying to prove a point that the survey is designed to slant it a bit towards what you're trying to prove. Or when the numbers don't come up exactly the way you wanted, how answers are grouped may change. After reading the methodology on this one, the former seems to have been the path taken.

[ricketyclik]

I'm not sure that instinctive denial necessarily reflects latent misogyny; I think it may reflect more the strong revulsion we have for the crime, combined with its rare or unique deniability. You can't plausibly say "well, he wasn't murdered, he fell on the knife while the other guy was holding it in an innocent fashion" or "it wasn't robbery, he gave the stuff away and now he's grumpy so he smashed his own window." But claiming it was actually consensual sex is at least superficially plausible, and more appealing than believing that someone who appears likable, or perhaps was even a well-liked community figure, is actually some kind of predatory psycho. It's also the only possible defense if investigators find the defendant's semen on the girl. It's either "she really wanted it" or "welp, he's guilty, haul him away as soon as he gives me my attorney fees."

Now, the whole concept of pretending to be raped for revenge or attention seems rather nonsensical and doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny, nor would such a person be much less morally repellent than an actual rapist. But the absurdity serves to make it less repellent; we can't picture a serial liar-about-being-raped the way we can picture a smiling serial rapist. All this would only be aggravated in the case of gang rape, where we have to believe that like five guys have turned sexual assault into a kind of team sport. Much easier to believe it's just one of those girls being dramatic.

And, yeah, a few people like Kid in the crowd probably help the process along tremendously. I don't have a hard time believing this stuff happens. But I do have a hard time attributing it to a permissive culture, when we're so plainly horrified by it.

Gribbler, I can accept that. It's just not what "rape culture" seems to be used to mean, at least to me. EDIT: Would a culture that tolerates drunken hookups count? I think that definitely makes rape a LOT more likely, if they don't know each other real well and they're both plastered.

I'm sure the example of pretending to be raped occurs, but from what I've seen, actually being raped and not being believed is far more common.

[ricketyclik]

This was my issue. They probably would have had numbers you couldn't ignore regardless. But by massaging the numbers they did open the door for people to criticize and take the focus off what their goal was.
But from my experience, its very common that when you authorize a survey tying to prove a point that the survey is designed to slant it a bit towards what you're trying to prove. Or when the numbers don't come up exactly the way you wanted, how answers are grouped may change. After reading the methodology on this one, the former seems to have been the path taken.

I agree.

[kentonio]

And, yeah, a few people like Kid in the crowd probably help the process along tremendously. I don't have a hard time believing this stuff happens. But I do have a hard time attributing it to a permissive culture, when we're so plainly horrified by it.

I think that horror translates into a refusal to accept that its both very common and that perpetrators often are not recognized criminal or gang types, but respected fathers, brothers and friends. Which then leads people to find ways to believe it isn't true, and to start questioning the woman's role and previous behaviour. It's easier for a lot of people to believe that a young woman was just a slut who regretted sex, than to accept that a well educated family man or promising student is a rapist.

[giblets]

I'm not sure that instinctive denial necessarily reflects latent misogyny; I think it may reflect more the strong revulsion we have for the crime, combined with its rare or unique deniability. You can't plausibly say "well, he wasn't murdered, he fell on the knife while the other guy was holding it in an innocent fashion" or "it wasn't robbery, he gave the stuff away and now he's grumpy so he smashed his own window." But claiming it was actually consensual sex is at least superficially plausible, and more appealing than believing that someone who appears likable, or perhaps was even a well-liked community figure, is actually some kind of predatory psycho. It's also the only possible defense if investigators find the defendant's semen on the girl. It's either "she really wanted it" or "welp, he's guilty, haul him away as soon as he gives me my attorney fees."

Now, the whole concept of pretending to be raped for revenge or attention seems rather nonsensical and doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny, nor would such a person be much less morally repellent than an actual rapist. But the absurdity serves to make it less repellent; we can't picture a serial liar-about-being-raped the way we can picture a smiling serial rapist. All this would only be aggravated in the case of gang rape, where we have to believe that like five guys have turned sexual assault into a kind of team sport. Much easier to believe it's just one of those girls being dramatic.

And, yeah, a few people like Kid in the crowd probably help the process along tremendously. I don't have a hard time believing this stuff happens. But I do have a hard time attributing it to a permissive culture, when we're so plainly horrified by it.

Do you think this might be more of an issue in a culture where women are stereotyped as irrational and dramatic?

Gribbler, I can accept that. It's just not what "rape culture" seems to be used to mean, at least to me. EDIT: Would a culture that tolerates drunken hookups count? I think that definitely makes rape a LOT more likely, if they don't know each other real well and they're both plastered.

I don't think it's a bad idea to keep an eye on people who are plastered and might doing something stupid...?

[Kidlicious]

No Kid, that actually happened. And she was one of I would estimate thousands over the years.

I didn't say it didn't happen. Why would you say I did?

[Kidlicious]

Blah blah blah I'm insane blah blah blah

No. You're insane. Go do a simple task and learn what the words you use in your argument actually mean instead of making a fool if yourself.

[ricketyclik]

I didn't say it didn't happen. Why would you say I did?

Jeez, I don't know, bias? The fact that it happened, and that it is relatively common, negates "sensationalism".

[Kidlicious]

How about you're just talking nonsense. You aren't talking about the theory of rape culture. You're being a no it all ignorant ass.

[kentonio]

You're being a no it all ignorant ass.

[rah]

Some mistakes are just funnier than others.

[Kidlicious]

Do you think this might be more of an issue in a culture where women are stereotyped as irrational and dramatic?



I don't think it's a bad idea to keep an eye on people who are plastered and might doing something stupid...?

The problem is counting drunk sex as rape you numbskull.

[rah]

Some drunk sex is rape, some is not. There is a fine line there sometimes.

[giblets]

The problem is counting drunk sex as rape you numbskull.

Does it count if a group of guys forces a woman to drink alcohol until she's delirious and then ****s her?

[Kidlicious]

I've observed in Australia that there's a strong tendency to assume that the victim was "asking for it" by wearing sexy clothes or simply being vivacious.

The legal system certainly has tended along those lines, asking the victim to defend their actions rather than the perpetrator.

That's irrelevant. It doesn't cause rape.