Obama: 1in 5 women have been raped in the US

[Aeson]

I think "rape culture" is just a euphemism for "fraternity".

[ricketyclik]

I can give you an example.

In my youth I went to visit a flame (unreciprocated, largely) of mine in another city for a couple of weeks. I stayed in her house. She'd been raped about a year prior, and was living with two women she'd met at a rape support group.

One of them, a lovely young woman, very pleasant, liked to chat with me, but spent a lot of time in her room. She was a bit nervous around me, so I figured she was avoiding me.

I'm still friends with my old flame, and a couple of years ago I asked her what had become of that young woman. Turns out she was dead. Drank herself to death, over about 15 years. That was what she was doing in her room, all those years ago.

She had been gang-raped by a football team at a pub. Not only did all of the men who raped her think it was OK, but double digit (male) witnesses [edit: saw no reason to/were too afraid to] protest against the occurrence. Naturally, her trust of men was not high subsequently, to the extent that she used alcohol not only to blot out her pain, but to give her the courage to leave her bedroom.

Apparently this - gang rape - isn't uncommon amongst football teams in Australia, and this has been the case since time immemorial.

That's an example of rape culture.

[Kidlicious]

The theory of rape culture, which was never anything more than speculation has been thoroughly debunked, but is still taught of course in women's studies. But then you can teach any damn thing in women's studies.

[Elok]

I'd say it's more of a "rape subculture." I don't doubt that the mentality is common in certain testosterone-overdosed contexts (like Aeson said, fraternities), but the term "rape culture" implies that society as a whole is to blame, and I don't think it is except in the sense that it tolerates the subcultures. Is RC simply a name for that latter sin?

[ricketyclik]

From wikipedia:

There is evidence to suggest that rape culture is correlated with other social factors and behaviors. Rape myths, victim blaming, and trivialization of rape have been found to be positively correlated with racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, classism, religious intolerance, and other forms of discrimination.

In other words, it's another expression of group-reinforced lack of empathy, or group sociopathy.

[Kidlicious]

I can give you an example.

In my youth I went to visit a flame (unreciprocated, largely) of mine in another city for a couple of weeks. I stayed in her house. She'd been raped about a year prior, and was living with two women she'd met at a rape support group.

One of them, a lovely young woman, very pleasant, liked to chat with me, but spent a lot of time in her room. She was a bit nervous around me, so I figured she was avoiding me.

I'm still friends with my old flame, and a couple of years ago I asked her what had become of that young woman. Turns out she was dead. Drank herself to death, over about 15 years. That was what she was doing in her room, all those years ago.

She had been gang-raped by a football team at a pub. Not only did all of the men who raped her think it was OK, but double digit (male) witnesses [edit: saw no reason to/were too afraid to] protest against the occurrence. Naturally, her trust of men was not high subsequently, to the extent that she used alcohol not only to blot out her pain, but to give her the courage to leave her bedroom.

Apparently this - gang rape - isn't uncommon amongst football teams in Australia, and this has been the case since time immemorial.

That's an example of rape culture.

No. No it's not. All it is is sensationalism.

[Kidlicious]

I'd say it's more of a "rape subculture." I don't doubt that the mentality is common in certain testosterone-overdosed contexts (like Aeson said, fraternities), but the term "rape culture" implies that society as a whole is to blame, and I don't think it is except in the sense that it tolerates the subcultures. Is RC simply a name for that latter sin?

Check crime statistics. Women are safer on campus than off campus.

[kentonio]

I think when a girl can be blind drunk and raped by athletes who film the whole thing while laughing about it, and the towns response is to ostracize her as a slut, that probably counts as at least local rape culture.

[ricketyclik]

I'd say it's more of a "rape subculture." I don't doubt that the mentality is common in certain testosterone-overdosed contexts (like Aeson said, fraternities), but the term "rape culture" implies that society as a whole is to blame, and I don't think it is except in the sense that it tolerates the subcultures. Is RC simply a name for that latter sin?

I've observed in Australia that there's a strong tendency to assume that the victim was "asking for it" by wearing sexy clothes or simply being vivacious.

The legal system certainly has tended along those lines, asking the victim to defend their actions rather than the perpetrator.

[kentonio]

Check crime statistics. Women are safer on campus than off campus.

I don't think that shows what you seem to think it shows.

[ricketyclik]

No. No it's not. All it is is sensationalism.

No Kid, that actually happened. And she was one of I would estimate thousands over the years.

[Kidlicious]

I think when a girl can be blind drunk and raped by athletes who film the whole thing while laughing about it, and the towns response is to ostracize her as a slut, that probably counts as at least local rape culture.

Learn what words mean.

[giblets]

Since nutso brought it up, what does "rape culture" mean, anyhow? Wiki's article didn't help the last time I checked. Our society, in general (as opposed to people like Kid) seems really fairly appalled by rape. In some contexts, rape is treated more seriously than murder; e.g., you could show a dozen people get murdered in a movie and it would be "good gory fun," but rape scenes can still generate controversy. Does the term refer to stuff like the cops doubting rape accusations by default, or the backlog in processing rape kits, or something at work in the larger society which I have failed to notice?

It's entirely possible for someone to believe rape is wrong while still acting in ways that make it easier for rapists to get away with it. For example countries like Iran where it's dangerous for a woman to tell authorities she was raped because she could get accused of committing adultery. Doesn't mean that Iranians are perfectly okay with the concept of rape.

[ricketyclik]

Learn what words mean.

Blah blah blah I'm insane blah blah blah

[Elok]

I've observed in Australia that there's a strong tendency to assume that the victim was "asking for it" by wearing sexy clothes or simply being vivacious.

The legal system certainly has tended along those lines, asking the victim to defend their actions rather than the perpetrator.

I'm not sure that instinctive denial necessarily reflects latent misogyny; I think it may reflect more the strong revulsion we have for the crime, combined with its rare or unique deniability. You can't plausibly say "well, he wasn't murdered, he fell on the knife while the other guy was holding it in an innocent fashion" or "it wasn't robbery, he gave the stuff away and now he's grumpy so he smashed his own window." But claiming it was actually consensual sex is at least superficially plausible, and more appealing than believing that someone who appears likable, or perhaps was even a well-liked community figure, is actually some kind of predatory psycho. It's also the only possible defense if investigators find the defendant's semen on the girl. It's either "she really wanted it" or "welp, he's guilty, haul him away as soon as he gives me my attorney fees."

Now, the whole concept of pretending to be raped for revenge or attention seems rather nonsensical and doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny, nor would such a person be much less morally repellent than an actual rapist. But the absurdity serves to make it less repellent; we can't picture a serial liar-about-being-raped the way we can picture a smiling serial rapist. All this would only be aggravated in the case of gang rape, where we have to believe that like five guys have turned sexual assault into a kind of team sport. Much easier to believe it's just one of those girls being dramatic.

And, yeah, a few people like Kid in the crowd probably help the process along tremendously. I don't have a hard time believing this stuff happens. But I do have a hard time attributing it to a permissive culture, when we're so plainly horrified by it.

Gribbler, I can accept that. It's just not what "rape culture" seems to be used to mean, at least to me. EDIT: Would a culture that tolerates drunken hookups count? I think that definitely makes rape a LOT more likely, if they don't know each other real well and they're both plastered.