I've gotten another jury summons

[Al B. Sure!]

I think you might be mixing up correlation and causation here. For example, widespread literacy could foster a middle class and make people more likely to question the authority of the church, and encourage the development of capitalism and democracy.

Potatoes Potahtoes. The point is culture, economics, religion, etc. influence political persuasion. Iberian societies have struggled to form and sustain democracies while the English, Dutch, and Scandinavians have not. Looking at what unites the Northern Europeans and contrasting it with the commonalities of the Iberian world sheds light on the origins of the differences in political outcomes.


I don't believe I have ever before seen anyone doubt the connection between an emerging and strong middle class and the development of liberal democracy.

[Ban Kenobi]

Potatoes Potahtoes. The point is culture, economics, religion, etc. influence political persuasion. Iberian societies have struggled to form and sustain democracies while the English, Dutch, and Scandinavians have not. Looking at what unites the Northern Europeans and contrasting it with the commonalities of the Iberian world sheds light on the origins of the differences in political outcomes.


I don't believe I have ever before seen anyone doubt the connection between an emerging and strong middle class and liberal capitalist democracy.

Simply observing that liberal capitalist democracies have a strong middle class does not demonstrate that the middle class caused liberal democracy and capitalism to happen.

[Al B. Sure!]

Simply observing that liberal capitalist democracies have a strong middle class does not demonstrate that the middle class caused liberal democracy and capitalism to happen.

Find it and read it:

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why exactly are we avoiding Germany here? It is telling that Alby uses "England, Netherlands, Scandinavia", but ignores the big country right next to those areas that had a very strong middle class, were first in the Protestant Reformation, etc, etc... but were fine with their monarchy until forced to give it up.

[Al B. Sure!]

Why exactly are we avoiding Germany here? It is telling that Alby uses "England, Netherlands, Scandinavia", but ignores the big country right next to those areas that had a very strong middle class, were first in the Protestant Reformation, etc, etc... but were fine with their monarchy until forced to give it up.

There's always outliers

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yes, the biggest country in Europe being an "outlier"

[Al B. Sure!]

Realistically, there were probably other factors in Germany not present in England or the Netherlands. I just don't know what they are.

[notyoueither]

Germany wasn't a 'country' until the later part of the 19th century.

[molly bloom]

Realistically, there were probably other factors in Germany not present in England or the Netherlands. I just don't know what they are.

A ha. I see you have spotted the flaw in a great overarching comprehensive theory. Always ignore that populous bourgeois state which brought in social security and old age pensions and legalized trade unions and still turned into a racist dictatorship, and your theory about northern Europe will be just fine.

Unfortunately ignoring Germany makes nonsense of European history. Austria-Hungary also had a strong middle class- and look how well that empire devolved....