VW actually wants to unionize its American factory; Republicans freak out.

[Sava]

Power corrupts, and unions are not immune.

I'm not saying it doesn't or they aren't. All human organizations suffer from this reality. So to hate unions specifically because of that is very, very stupid.

But with unions, the good vastly outweighs the bad.

[BlackCat]

Well, maybe these evil unions should take lessons from humanitary, non business, utter volontary organisations such as NRA who don't discrimintate when they support politicians

[Sava]

Well, maybe these evil unions should take lessons from humanitary, non business, utter volontary organisations such as NRA who don't discrimintate when they support politicians

Yes. If we're going to talk about harmful special interest groups that exist only for their own benefit and not their members...

[Ban Kenobi]

The NRA uses news reports about school shootings as masturbation material.

[Sava]

The NRA uses news reports about school shootings as masturbation material.

Another victory for freedom.

[Felch]

I'm not saying it doesn't or they aren't. All human organizations suffer from this reality. So to hate unions specifically because of that is very, very stupid.

But with unions, the good vastly outweighs the bad.

Unions have done a lot of good work. They raise living standards, and give workers a voice in how their companies are run. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be open to mitbestimmung. The Germans have moved beyond 19th century confrontational labor relations, and have figured out how to give workers a voice and a fair deal without necessarily being in a union. Isn't that a good thing?

This is what I meant by the institutions. If the purpose of unions is to help workers, then they should be open to anything that helps workers. If the purpose of unions is to continue existing as unions, then it makes sense that they oppose the German model.

[Sava]

Unions have done a lot of good work. They raise living standards, and give workers a voice in how their companies are run. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be open to mitbestimmung. The Germans have moved beyond 19th century confrontational labor relations, and have figured out how to give workers a voice and a fair deal without necessarily being in a union. Isn't that a good thing?

This is what I meant by the institutions. If the purpose of unions is to help workers, then they should be open to anything that helps workers. If the purpose of unions is to continue existing as unions, then it makes sense that they oppose the German model.

Oh. When you put it like that, sure!

[Felch]

I was worried for a second that I was to the left of you on an issue.

[Dinner]

Where did I say anything about note trying VW do what it wants.

You do understand all VW wants workers on the board, NOT necessarily union workers, right? Of course you don't.

Tennessee state law won't allow that unless there is a union. This is why VW has said they want workers to form a union. You're wrong as always.

[Patroklos]

You are a lying sack of ****, though it could be that once again you just haven't read your own article.

1.) At no point does the article state VW wants anyone to form a union. I dare you to try and quote your article saying this. The very first damn line explicitly says the UAW and VW are facing off over this issue. What VW said they want is a workers council which the article explicitly states IS NOT A UNION. Not only is it not a Union, German law explicitly requires such councils to not be union.

2.) The article does not say it's against the law to form worker councils, it saws the UAW and labor experts say so. Neither Tennessee itself or any of its Republican politicians have stated this. In fact the only entity, according to your article, showing any resistance to VW is the UAW and there opposition is solely based on them wanting to exploit workers to ensure they can expand institutionally. These are workers who have no link, history, or common goals with the UAW so why the hell should VW or the workers let an outside entity interfere? Do you not trust the workers to vote for their own officers?

TLDR: Oerdin is still a lying sack of ****, shock.

[DinoDoc]

Just for amusement value, I hope the vote fails.

[self biased]

You are a lying sack of ****, though it could be that once again you just haven't read your own article.

1.) At no point does the article state VW wants anyone to form a union. I dare you to try and quote your article saying this. The very first damn line explicitly says the UAW and VW are facing off over this issue. What VW said they want is a workers council which the article explicitly states IS NOT A UNION. Not only is it not a Union, German law explicitly requires such councils to not be union.

2.) The article does not say it's against the law to form worker councils, it saws the UAW and labor experts say so. Neither Tennessee itself or any of its Republican politicians have stated this. In fact the only entity, according to your article, showing any resistance to VW is the UAW and there opposition is solely based on them wanting to exploit workers to ensure they can expand institutionally. These are workers who have no link, history, or common goals with the UAW so why the hell should VW or the workers let an outside entity interfere? Do you not trust the workers to vote for their own officers?

TLDR: Oerdin is still a lying sack of ****, shock.

there are two types of people in the world:

those who can infer a conclusion from incomplete data.

[The Mad Monk]

Of course, the issue is not the ability to infer, but the ability to infer correctly.

[Dinner]

http://inthesetimes.com/article/16257/volkswagen_wants_unions_gop_says_no1/

There you go, so that even someone as dumb as Patty can become educated.

A little more in depth on motivations with less partisanship:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/02/10/why-volkswagen-is-helping-a-union-organize-its-own-plant/

[Dinner]

Also, a while back Maddow went over the anti-union laws in TN and it is indeed illegal for workers to get a say, as VW does in all of its other plants, without the plant officially voting to be unionized. That's just TN law.