"I don't feel special or entitled..."

[DaShi]

By how much?

[KrazyHorse]

Itd be a nightmare to implement because people would kvetch about it. Any market reasons it wouldnt work are better explained by you than stumbled upon by me. Lack of an obvious price discovery mechanism would be one.

Not sure what you mean by the last thing. I would start with the following:

1) That supply of stem education may not be quite as tight as you think relative to arts education
2) That demand way not be quite as strong - people evaluate their choices in education along more dimensions than simply future earnings
3) Bargaining power of faculty at universities
4) Unwillingness of universities to cheapen their brand
5) Ancillary benefits to universities from having strong stem programs (e.g. grant money)
6) Various subsidies to students in the arts (direct and indirect)

Which of these reasons, if any, give arts students a reason to complain that they are being hard done by?

In my view a lot of university education is consumption - the benefits are enjoyed by the individual and are immediate rather than over time. You can speculate that some majors skew more toward this than others. In this case, a lot of the complaints you see are simply buyer's remorse...

[regexcellent]

In my view a lot of university education is consumption - the benefits are enjoyed by the individual and are immediate rather than over time. You can speculate that some majors skew more toward this than others. In this case, a lot of the complaints you see are simply buyer's remorse...

Which is exactly what I was talking about with lots of people feeling entitled to a job with their university degree, even if it was something they did not for future job prospects but for the "enrichment experience" and also getting to go to parties, be around loose women their age, etc.

[Aeson]

~20 years ago when most kids who are in college were just starting out in life, just about any college degree would still mean a pretty sure shot at the American dream. Own your own house, two cars in the garage, ect. Probably up until 2008 it was essentially a given. It was unsustainable at that point. But unless you were holding a cardboard sign on a street-corner in 2007, it's likely you didn't see that coming either.

It's not surprising that there would be a lot of people who would grow up with the expectation that they would do as well or better than their parents in that regard making similar choices. That's what the trend was. It's also not surprising that kids who went into college around the end of the bubble would feel their prospects are much worse than they were when they went in ... because they definitely are.

It's rather absurd to assume that people spent the last few years of their life going into significant debt in order to go into a field that they knew wouldn't allow them to live the life they wanted. It's much more reasonable to assume that people went in with one set of expectations, and the situation changed on them. Because the situation definitely changed.

[Aeson]

Which of these reasons, if any, give arts students a reason to complain that they are being hard done by?

You're one of the 20000 smartest people ever or something like that ... and I remember you complaining about how little physicists made. That was what, 6-8 years in? (And complaining about what would have been an upper-middle class lifestyle most likely.)

Yah, you were in a situation which had an easy out (for you) to a better life that let you correct for your change from idealist to higher standard of living... most people aren't, and they were blindsided by an economic change rather than just deciding they should make more than they would have expected before going in.

[KrazyHorse]

People attending college in the 2000s made substantially different choices than the people in the previous generation who went to college. And furthermore they were likely far stupider.

[regexcellent]

It's not surprising that there would be a lot of people who would grow up with the expectation that they would do as well or better than their parents in that regard making similar choices.

That expectation is a feeling of entitlement, which is what I said in the OP.

[Aeson]

That expectation is a feeling of entitlement, which is what I said in the OP.

Apparently your STEM education hasn't taught you much in the way of logic and/or reading comprehension. I'm not taking to you task for calling it entitlement. I have not claimed it's not entitlement.

I have taken you to task for your absurd assumptions about why people chose the path they did, as well as the irony of you whining about how whiny your generation is.

[Aeson]

People attending college in the 2000s made substantially different choices than the people in the previous generation who went to college. And furthermore they were likely far stupider.

A lot has changed in recent years. I am saying there are very good reasons why a person going into college in 2007-2008 and graduating now would feel poorer than they would have expected going in. This applies to most non-technical professions. And in the worst of it, even a lot of people graduating in technical professions experienced much the same thing in 2009-2010.

The reality is that people do make choices that may be right at the time, but due to situations outside their control the choices become less right or even wrong. Unless you're one of those who predicted the changes (and can do so consistently) then you don't have much room to damn people for having made such mistakes. You yourself made a similar mistake, but were saved by the exceptional nature of the skills you were born with.

Hopefully this is all just temporary and we can get back to the point where people who do valuable work in the world are compensated not according to how little some person with a malnourished family trapped in a cage would do it for ...

[regexcellent]

"Taken me to task" is putting it very, very charitably.

[Aeson]

"Taken me to task" is putting it very, very charitably.

Yes, I am being charitable to you by not calling it what it is ... an asswhipping that makes you look impotent and stupid.

[Aeson]

Now if you can try to address the subject matter, perhaps we could drop the "impotent" part. At least show you have some fight in you. I doubt you'll be able to improve upon the "stupid" though.