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  • #16
    I think any beliefs not founded in rational thought are open to question and possibly ridicule.
    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
    "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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    • #17
      Originally posted by MOBIUS
      'trivially disproven bull****'
      The other two phrases are being rude, that one is pure fact.
      Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
      Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
      We've got both kinds

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Wezil View Post
        I think any beliefs not founded in rational thought are open to question and possibly ridicule.
        Certainly open to debate, but why ridicule? In matters of faith, divine actions may not have a basis in science or rational thought. "Who are we to question the gods?" Debate the point from whatever point of view you choose to believe in, but there should be no room for ridicule when dealing with people's personal religious beliefs.

        Now...to say that "God guided evolution to the creation of man in seven days" is a belief that doesn't have a definite value for what a "day" is. "God created man from dust" doesn't have a value for time frame. So much of religion is subject to undefined base principles. By some interpretations, science and creationism could exist simultaneously. It seems to me that it is far better to say "Okay...how does your religion explain "X"?" than to say "You are a ****ing moron because science says this!"
        "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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        • #19
          Originally posted by PLATO View Post
          Certainly open to debate, but why ridicule? In matters of faith, divine actions may not have a basis in science or rational thought. "Who are we to question the gods?" Debate the point from whatever point of view you choose to believe in, but there should be no room for ridicule when dealing with people's personal religious beliefs.
          Why should religious beliefs be treated any differently from any other beliefs? Why does someone believing in a giant invisible guy in the sky get a respect that we'd never give to someone who believes a giant squirrel called Percy is stalking them? I've always been a bit confused by what the distinction is.

          You could argue that no-one should be ridiculed for any belief they happen to hold of course.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by kentonio View Post
            Why should religious beliefs be treated any differently from any other beliefs? Why does someone believing in a giant invisible guy in the sky get a respect that we'd never give to someone who believes a giant squirrel called Percy is stalking them? I've always been a bit confused by what the distinction is.

            You could argue that no-one should be ridiculed for any belief they happen to hold of course.
            No, I believe it is a different argument because you are dealing with "the divine" (for lack of a better term). Religion, by its very nature involves unprovable assumptions ("faith" if you will). This separates it from other beliefs
            "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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            • #21
              Originally posted by PLATO View Post
              No, I believe it is a different argument because you are dealing with "the divine" (for lack of a better term).
              Something which only has meaning to those who actually believe in it. Again, why does it get special treatment?

              Originally posted by PLATO View Post
              Religion, by its very nature involves unprovable assumptions ("faith" if you will). This separates it from other beliefs
              Lots of beliefs are just as unprovable as religion, I really don't understand how something being unprovable would somehow demand respect anyway? If a religion beliefs that its adherents are supposed to commit mass suicide on a specific date because god told their prophet that in a dream, is that also something we should show respect for?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by MikeH View Post
                I find it sad not funny. 46% of the people in the worlds biggest economy, and one of the most advanced countries on earth, believes some trivially disproven bull****? Depressing.
                Yeah, what are the rest of you doing wrong? You should be leaving gullible folks like us in the dust.
                No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by PLATO View Post
                  Close.

                  I do believe that people are entitled to their beliefs and should be able to have them without ridicule.

                  I think MOBIUS is on the right track (did I actually say that!?!) Discuss the evidence...do away with the ridicule.
                  I believe in my God-given right to ridicule people for their beliefs!
                  “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                  "Capitalism ho!"

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by The Mad Monk View Post
                    Yeah, what are the rest of you doing wrong? You should be leaving gullible folks like us in the dust.
                    Free loaders.

                    Also, those countries that have nearly removed religion from their politics have been catching up at unprecedented rates. Those that still struggle with religious issues, including the US, have been stalling or declining. I'm never surprised at how little you know.
                    Last edited by DaShi; August 9, 2013, 10:58.
                    “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                    "Capitalism ho!"

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by kentonio View Post
                      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...p_ref=politics

                      When we hear about Americans in the South believing about creationism I think there's still a tendency in Europe for us to go 'Nahhhh, surely they must be joking? Surely it must just be a few religious wackos? Surely?'. Guess not.
                      This is what we'd refer to as a dumb poll question. And also, how British (as it seems) are as much into knee jerk reactions without caring about the underlying facts as much as the people they disdain.

                      If the question was Creation or Evolution, how are Evolutionary Creationists supposed to respond? I can pick either one of those if you asked me an either/or.
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                      • #26
                        The survey was conducted by automated telephone interviews. And the question was:

                        Would you say you believe more in creationism or evolution?
                        Pool Manager - Lombardi Handicappers League - An NFL Pick 'Em Pool

                        https://youtu.be/HLNhPMQnWu4

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by DaShi View Post
                          I believe in my God-given right to ridicule people for their beliefs!
                          Fair enough, but I have a God given right to believe you are wrong!
                          "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by PLATO View Post
                            By some interpretations, science and creationism could exist simultaneously. It seems to me that it is far better to say "Okay...how does your religion explain "X"?" than to say "You are a ****ing moron because science says this!"
                            I would not mock and ridicule someone who thinks the Christian creation myth is a metaphor that fits quite well with the history of the universe as we know it.

                            I would mock and ridicule someone who 'believed' in the face of all the contrary evidence that the earth is ~4000 years old.

                            One is a perfectly reasonable belief, one is ludicrous.
                            Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                            Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                            We've got both kinds

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Wezil View Post
                              I think any beliefs not founded in rational thought are open to question and possibly ridicule.
                              Why are we elevating everything to conform to the rubric of "rational thought". Especially when more and more scientific evidence is coming out that we come to our decisions emotionally and then add post-hoc rational basis to it.

                              I think our emotions are just as valid and important as rational thought & reason.
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ColdWizard View Post
                                The survey was conducted by automated telephone interviews. And the question was:
                                Yes... ****ty poll question.
                                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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