An explanation for Oerdin's magical Obamacare premium drop

[MrFun]

@imran
The NHS is beyond the scope of this discussion. I'd love it if you'd point to a single place where Obamacare is actually improving things, and then if you do by some stroke of fortune find one, explain how it justifies the vast harm that it creates. It is not an improvement over the previous system. The previous system actually required people to get health insurance. As in, there were real consequences to not getting it.

When the Democrats pushed back the Employer mandate, did you make lame excuses like the Washington Post editorial board? Did you stick your head in the sand? I'm genuinely curious.

How did the previous system require anyone to get health insurance?

[MrFun]

The end of pre-existing condition exclusions.

But there was already a remedy in place. People who are uninsured with a pre-existing condition die.

Right, HC?

[Ben Kenobi]

People who are uninsured with a pre-existing condition die.

Right. Folks like me with a 'pre-existing condition' die without insurance.

[Ben Kenobi]

ending pre-ex condition exclusions is the most important one

Not really. What will happen is that the already scarce resources will simply be allocated according to first-come, first-serve. Wait-lists will replace money. If you're dying you won't be able to do anything at all to get the care and treatment that you need, because other folks are in front of the line.

Two, not all conditions are covered, nor is the treatment for said conditions covered. It doesn't do much good to force people with pre-existing conditions to pay for health care coverage that doesn't actually benefit them.

Three, the things that are covered, are going to go into a death spiral. If you cannot be refused for having a pre-existing condition - then there is no incentive to pay for health insurance until you get sick.

[kentonio]

Jesus hates you, you lying ****.

[Felch]

Oerdin is obviously in his own little reality.

Did you see this?

Classic Oerdin

[Sava]

Sheltered I may be, but living in the hood doesn't teach you about insurance or actuarial science. Working at an actuarial firm and having two close family members who are actuaries does. This article is dead on and perfectly explains how a state like New York can be reducing costs under Obamacare, which in all other cases would be mathematically impossible. If you want to dispute it, you're gonna have to come up with a better reason than "HC lives in a suburb".

You are missing the point. I think Obamacare is terrible. It's part of the problem. But you know what the problem is? The private insurance industry. And you are arguing it from the perspective of the insurance industry. It is the problem. It needs to be destroyed.

I know two things about "actuary science" (a laughable term, btw): jack and ****. But having the expertise of an entry level employee in the industry isn't necessary. Nor is it necessary for my dad and big brother to be working in it.

Personally, I blame your father for this. You've obviously spent way too much time listening to him gripe about liberals and Obama. It's turned you into an utter buffoon. That's my guess anyways.

There's nothing interesting about the things you say with regards to politics. You don't demonstrate any particular knowledge or expertise.

And if we're going to go down the "I know more about this than you because my mommy/daddy works there" route, I'm going to win at that too. Mine is third behind the CEO... not insurance. Lab services. She's spent most of her life dealing with insurance pudwhacks.

The insurance industry is the problem. They are a useless middleman. They are the reason costs are high. They don't offer any products or services. And Obamacare has made it worse because it basically guarantees them a place in the market.

It should be doctor - patient. That's it. There's not room for insurance in this equation. Single-payer. Period. It's the most efficient and cost effective means of providing health care. We could take the current system, chop out insurance, and see instant cost savings across the board. It's a useless industry that doesn't do a goddamn thing for patient care. They exist solely to make money off of the process.

It needs to go away.

[Felch]

The end of pre-existing condition exclusions. That in itself is well worth the 'horrors' of making rich young folks being forced to buy insurance or increasing government costs.

What about the poor young folks who have to subsidize the rich old folks because of the 3:1 rule? Is it okay to screw over millions of working poor, just so that a tiny minority of people can benefit?

[Imran Siddiqui]

What about the poor young folks who have to subsidize the rich old folks because of the 3:1 rule? Is it okay to screw over millions of working poor, just so that a tiny minority of people can benefit?

In that case it is healthy folks who have to subsidize sicker folks, so that sicker folks don't have to pay ridiculously high premiums. Also I'd imagine that poor young folks are generally sicker than the rich young folk, as a general rule. And yes, that's ok.

In addition, just about every other industrialized country has it, so it isn't something that's out of left field either .

Also, FWIW, there the 3:1 community rating applies with respect to difference in costs due to age and only for people who are 21 to 64. Children from 0-20 and seniors over 64 have their own separate band:

http://www.uhc.com/united_for_reform_resource_center/health_reform_provisions/adjusted_community_rating.htm

Age rating: The maximum 3:1 ratio for age rating applies to adults age 21 and older. The final rule retains the single band for children age 0-20 and a single age band for individuals 64 and older. Age for rating purposes continues to be determined based on the date of policy issuance and renewal; however, individuals who obtain coverage other than at issuance or renewal may be rated as of the age that they are added.

[Krill]

It's true. I look out my window on suburban Virginia with its massive houses, two bank branches and a supermarket on every corner, and brightly-lit clean streets and think, "Is this America? What happened?"

A society is made of people, not land, ******. You should remember that.

Actually, no, maybe you should learn that first, because you've never given a **** about another human being that you couldn't **** up the ass with a roll of silver dollars. /sava

[Ben Kenobi]

It's true. I look out my window on suburban Virginia with its massive houses, two bank branches and a supermarket on every corner, and brightly-lit clean streets and think, "Is this America? What happened?"

Dammit, HC. Sigworthy.

[Ben Kenobi]

The insurance industry is the problem. They are a useless middleman. They are the reason costs are high. They don't offer any products or services

You need to come to Canada if you think that's the case. Imagine a country where you couldn't buy car insurance except through one government insurer.

I am *thrilled* to be free of that here in America. Where, if I don't like the premiums charged by one insurance broker, I can get another broker. Yes, this is radical for Canada.

Obamacare is a ****heap, but at least it's somewhat LESS of a ****heap than single payer.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

The entire false premise of Obamacare can be summed up in a few concepts.

1) The goal of Obamacare was to expand the amount of people receiving health care thus total demand for helath care services is expected to increase as a result.

2) The result of Obamacare is that the providers of the services will be forced to supply services at lower reimbursement rates than they currently do.

3) The inevitable conclusion is that suppliers will exit the market and new suppliers will decide the exorbitant entry costs (read tuition costs, malpracitce premiums, inevitable increased overhead to deal with govt beauracracy etc.) will dissuade new potential doctors from entering the field. Some shifting toward nurse pracitioners etc will occur but that results in a likely lower quality of health services.

4) Thus Obamacare makes what rationing situations exists an even worse situation by mandating an increase in demand in one instance while perversely incenting supply to diminish both in terms of availability and quality of service.

[Asher]

You need to come to Canada if you think that's the case. Imagine a country where you couldn't buy car insurance except through one government insurer.

I am *thrilled* to be free of that here in America. Where, if I don't like the premiums charged by one insurance broker, I can get another broker. Yes, this is radical for Canada.

Obamacare is a ****heap, but at least it's somewhat LESS of a ****heap than single payer.

Are you retarded?

Yes; yes you are.

My car insurance isn't through the government. There are dozens of insurance companies. You are an idiot.

You seem to be conflating specific provinces with an entire country. An easy mistake to make if you're ****ing retarded. Isn't that only Saskatchewan or something? And it's like that because the people of that province chose that system, if anything.

[Ben Kenobi]

My car insurance isn't through the government.

Yes, I suppose you have a point in there somewhere?

There are dozens of insurance companies. You are an idiot.

Not in British Columbia. Which, last I checked is still part of Canada.

Anyways, the ultimate point still stands. Insurance brokers do provide services.