Margaret Thatcher is dead.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

There wasn't a way to be that Prime Minister and correct the course Britain was on. You either stood up to the unions and pissed off millions of people or you bowed before the unions and continued to let them dictate the countries future.

Why this fixation on the sole topic of unions? I'm speaking of society in general- a concept that Thatcher (famously) didn't believe in.

[Dinner]

No, it really wasn't. We had unions powerful enough to literally stop the country dead in its tracks in days, and they did it every damn time they didn't get their way. I support the existence of unions, but they were wildly out of control.

You can curtail strike rights without throwing the baby out with the bath water. I assure you it can be done but Thatcher wasn't interested in doing it and instead just wanted to destroy her enemies no matter how much damage she did to the country in the process. Sorry, but that's not the sign of a good leader just the sign of a partisan political operative who really doesn't give a **** about the country she's supposed to be running.

Also, yes, they were talking about those things. Go ahead and look up "The Dutch Disease", stagflation in America, or the whining over West Germany's industrial decline, etc... Just about every advanced economy had the exact same basic problem in the 1970's and it was inflation and oil prices as well as oil supply shocks were at the heart of the matter.

[kentonio]

Why this fixation on the sole topic of unions? I'm speaking of society in general- a concept that Thatcher (famously) didn't believe in.

A quote which was taken out of context it should be stressed.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Did it? Try explaining it away in the context of the Battle of the Beanfield.

[Sava]

Bush told them to rebel and turned his back on them when they did

Sure. He didn't want US troops occupying the country. At least in 2003, Iraq was tremendously weaker due to years of sanctions and the no-fly zone. Imagine the US trying to topple Saddam a decade earlier with a much more effective fight from the Saddam loyalists. The Shia resistance was not a capable force. That's why they got crushed. Look at Syria. It's a cluster****. And that resistance movement is a lot more capable and better armed than they were in Iraq 20 years ago.

I didn't agree with the US invasion of Iraq in 2003. But I understand it. Overall, it might end up being a good thing in the long run. If so, my chief complaints would be with the utter incompetency of how it was managed at the highest levels. Also, the whole lying to the American public is a bad thing. But governments lie. I'm not so butthurt about that. If you're going to lie... do it for a good reason. And when you have a good reason, make sure you know what you are doing. At the very least, they didn't know what they were doing. That's reason enough to oppose the policy until it's possible to have people who know what they are doing running the show.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Or, for that matter, Poll Tax, anti-gay legislation, UK regional policy and many, many others. Thatcher wasn't greatly concerned about anyone who wasn't a Tory voter in the bottom right-hand corner of England.

[Dauphin]

As an anecdotal point on society, in the UK I didn't know any of my neighbours even after living in the same house for five years.

In London, people get in the lift with you and look at you funny if you say "hello". In Geneva, people look at you funny if you don't say "hello".

[kentonio]

You can curtail strike rights without throwing the baby out with the bath water. I assure you it can be done but Thatcher wasn't interested in doing it and instead just wanted to destroy her enemies no matter how much damage she did to the country in the process. Sorry, but that's not the sign of a good leader just the sign of a partisan political operative who really doesn't give a **** about the country she's supposed to be running.

You're 'assuring me' that something that didn't happen could have happened and I'm supposed to just go 'ok then'? I lived under every year of Mrs Thatchers government, and she never made her decisions based on attacking enemies. No matter how much people disagree with her policies, she cared about Britain and was willing to face the consequences of doing things that were endlessly difficult. Personally I think she went too far on various occasions, but .

Also, yes, they were talking about those things. Go ahead and look up "The Dutch Disease", stagflation in America, or the whining over West Germany's industrial decline, etc... Just about every advanced economy had the exact same basic problem in the 1970's and it was inflation and oil prices as well as oil supply shocks were at the heart of the matter.

Talking about those things does not equal the situation being the same. Britain had a very specific set of problems that differed from the other European states. When we reached a point where we werent even burying our dead because of strike action, change was needed and I'm damn glad it came.

[snoopy369]

What natural resources are you referring to, vis a vis the UK.

Land and population, to start with. UK has 3/4 of the population of Germany, and much smaller land area also (Wikipedia lists it at 242000 km^2 vs. 357 km^2, but that seems wrong to me - I wonder if they're including outlying territories.) Iron and coal haven't been the key natural resources for a long time; nowadays it's aluminum if you're talking building materials, or lithium/etc. rare earth metals.

The UK isn't well positioned to distribute their goods anywhere. They're offshore from Europe, so they can't take advantage of cheap railways as easily; they are slightly closer to the US, but China has the US covered as it is. Some German products make it here, but mostly just high-end stuff that doesn't sell in very much quantity; toys, for example (as a parent) are nice to get from Germany since they follow EU rules on lead and BPA and such, but are horribly expensive.

Face it - the UK isn't going to be a specialist in manufacturing. They just don't have the population to have cheap labor, and the population they do have is too well educated to want to. They could manufacture larger things, but even that's mostly ending in Europe as it's too expensive and there are too many rules.

[regexcellent]

Or, for that matter, Poll Tax, anti-gay legislation, UK regional policy and many, many others. Thatcher wasn't greatly concerned about anyone who wasn't a Tory voter in the bottom right-hand corner of England.

Wait, isn't it the southeast that's tory, not southwest?

[kentonio]

Wait, isn't it the southeast that's tory, not southwest?

The south (and most rural areas) are generally conservative voting.

2010 Election map

[snoopy369]

Wait, isn't it the southeast that's tory, not southwest?

Bottom right-hand would be southeast, based on a normal north-top projection.

[regexcellent]

Pretty sure Oerdin doesn't like her for the simple reason that her party is called the "conservative" party. If a labour or liberal PM did the exact same thing he would be pissing himself with praise.

[regexcellent]

Bottom right-hand would be southeast, based on a normal north-top projection.

He DanS'd it and I added the quote after he did. The thread is moving too fast. It originally read bottom left hand.

[Dinner]

Without a doubt she was extremely unpopular in Scotland and the north. Granted this is a parody but still worth sharing.

Northern Britain already hammered
08-04-13
EVERYONE in Britain north of Birmingham is already very drunk indeed.

‘It’s a release is what it is’
Eyewitnesses said the drinking started within seconds of the announcement and was of a ferocious intensity.

Police in Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool and Glasgow have been told to take the rest of the week off as local authorities said they will tidy everything up ‘at some point’.

Nathan Muir, a southerner visiting Derby on what passes for business in the midlands, said: “I was in a meeting when someone spotted the news on their smartphone. The booze appeared instantly. I have no idea where it came from. It was like they had been waiting a very long time and were fully prepared.

“I would say they were all aggressively drunk within four to five minutes. I think it was the adrenalin rush combined with the funnels.

“Anyway, I quickly felt as if I did not belong, particularly when a half empty vodka bottle whizzed past my head, before exploding against the Derby Enterprise Zone poster on the wall.”

He added: “As I made a dash for the car park, I was almost killed as a desk smashed through a second floor window and completely destroyed a Nissan Qashqai.

“Then this woman stuck her head out of the broken window and shouted, ‘lets find Tebbit and piss on his face’.”

A spokesman for Merseyside Fire Brigade said: “We’re going to let things burn. If we put it out they will just set fire to it again. Plus, we don’t want to seem like killjoys.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/northern-britain-already-hammered-2013040865062