Five months on, Benghazi killers back to work and business as usual

[kentonio]

Bush executed a policy on Bin Laden and Obama continued that policy.

Except he didn't. He hugely ramped up the pressure to catch him which is why, hey surprise, he actually caught him.

What I am asking is whether the Administration intends to execute any policy as regards the Benghazi killers. He has said that he intends to bring them to justice. However there is no indication that he has taken any steps to do so in five months. It is fair to ask why.

Yeah right, Bush had 8 years to catch Bin Laden and utterly failed. You had little or nothing to say about the complete failure of your cowbow hero despite the deaths of 3000 people, yet suddenly everyones supposed to get their panties in a wad over a couple of embassy staff and a five month wait. Sure, that seems fair..

[Zevico]

Except he didn't. He hugely ramped up the pressure to catch him which is why, hey surprise, he actually caught him.

Evidence that Obama allotted resources to that effort that would not otherwise have been allotted to this effort is necessary before this assertion can be accepted.

Yeah right, Bush had 8 years to catch Bin Laden and utterly failed.

Evidence that Obama allotted resources that would not otherwise have been allotted to this effort is necessary before this assertion can be accepted. Also, evidence that Bush should have done anything other than invade Afghanistan and allocate the necessary operational and intelligence resources to hunt down Bin Laden is necessary before this assertion is necessary before this assertion can be accepted.

[kentonio]

One guy who ran the militia training camps gets nabbed by the Egyptians.

The Egyptians have declined access to the Americans. (Great allies.)

Please explain why running a militia camp makes you responsible for the future actions of people who use those skills for bad purposes? Is the commandant at Fort Bragg responsible for the soldier who then shot a load of people there?

The rest of the militia is still safe and sound in Libya, as are the organisers of this attack, so far as we know.

Of course what you know is basically nothing, because..

Steps taken to secure retribution and deter further attacks known to date: American officials have asked to interrogate a prisoner. The Egyptians refused.

..intelligence agencies don't tend to wander around publically releasing details of ongoing intelligence operations to the general public, because that would be pretty ****ing stupid of course.

The Americans promptly responded by threatening to cut aid to Egypt. Oh, I'm sorry: I just wish they did that. They did nothing so far.

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. You think that America should threaten to drop the most direct influence it has over Egypt because the Egyptians are acting like a sovereign state? Gee, I wonder what the outcome of that might be, maybe Egypt gets poorer, the people get angrier and the system less stable, militants have an even better breeding ground, and then in a couple of years you can come back and tell us how essential it is that we start bombing them.

[Zevico]

Please explain why running a militia camp makes you responsible for the future actions of people who use those skills for bad purposes? Is the commandant at Fort Bragg responsible for the soldier who then shot a load of people there?

This is a militia with an ideology, bucko. It's a trained private army affiliated with Al-Qaeda. It's generally accepted that it is a crime to train a private army for a terrorist purpose. It's certainly against American national interests and those of the West in general.

This is a bit like saying "let's not blame Bin Laden for all the people who trained under him and committed terror in his name even though he didn't plan their specific terrorist actions."

"Of course what you know is basically nothing

If you ignore the news reports linked to in the article linked in the OP. Those reports openly state that the militias are openly operating as if nothing has happened and that their leader is mocking the Americans and the Libyans quite openly while relaxing with a drink at a plush hotel.

..intelligence agencies don't tend to wander around publically releasing details of ongoing intelligence operations to the general public, because that would be pretty ****ing stupid of course.

It's possible. But it hasn't happened yet. And what are his options? If the Libyans were willing or capable of anything they'd have done it a while ago. And there's no real indication they'll become more capable or willing in future to do so.

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. You think that America should threaten to drop the most direct influence it has over Egypt because the Egyptians are acting like a sovereign state?

How does it exercise that influence, kentonio? A client state is only a client state if it does what you tell it to. Otherwise this is just a free money give away.

[kentonio]

Evidence that Obama allotted resources to that effort that would not otherwise have been allotted to this effort is necessary before this assertion can be accepted.

Evidence that Bush gave the smallest crap about Bin Laden between 2006 and just before he left office, would be needed first. Here have a bit of a read.

http://thinkprogress.org/security/20...tch-bin-laden/

Obama came into office making the Bin Laden hunt a priority. He made that clear on many occasions and then delivered. Bin Laden could have been caught in 2001 in Tora Bora, but the Bush Admin blew it and then spent another 7 year alternating between not caring and failing. It literally defies belief that the only time you partisan ****s give a damn about results is when it suits your worldview, and you're willing to lie like children when it doesn't.

Also, evidence that Bush should have done anything other than invade Afghanistan and allocate the necessary operational and intelligence resources to hunt down Bin Laden is necessary before this assertion is necessary before this assertion can be accepted.

Do you remember WHY Afghanistan was invaded? It was simply because they refused to turn over those responsible for 9/11. I supported the invasion because the Taliban deserved what they got, and not responding to 9/11 would have been unthinkable. Along the way though the reason for the whole thing managed to get dropped by the wayside as America got pulled deeper and deeper into yet another terrible planned and executed occupation. The goal was the capture or death of Bin Laden, and that was not achieved even though it cost thousands more American lives and tens of thousands of Afghan lives in the attempt.

[kentonio]

This is a militia with an ideology, bucko. This is a bit like saying "let's not blame Bin Laden for all the people who trained under him and committed terror in his name even though he didn't plan their specific terrorist actions."

He's an Islamist so therefore in your eyes he's a terrorist who has no rights. That's accurate, yes? He didn't actually commit this crime, but hey he probably wanted to, so lets torture him for information and then probably execute him anyway?

f you ignore the news reports linked to in the article linked in the OP. Those reports openly state that the militias are openly operating as if nothing has happened and that their leader is mocking the Americans and the Libyans quite openly while relaxing with a drink at a plush hotel.

Please stop being willfully stupid. You're damn right I would ignore a news report about this stuff, as I said it's not like the intelligence agencies are likely to tell you or the media about the details of what they are actually doing.

It's possible. But it hasn't happened yet. And what are his options? If the Libyans were willing or capable of anything they'd have done it a while ago. And there's no real indication they'll become more capable or willing in future to do so.

Gee, do you think Libya might have a few problems of its own at the moment which they might see as slightly higher priority?

How does it exercise that influence, kentonio? A client state is only a client state if it does what you tell it to. Otherwise this is just a free money give away.

There we have it, a 'client state'. Put down the cold war manuals and the Tom Clancy books for ****s sake, that America died a decade or more ago.

[Egbert]

So let's see...

PLATO wants to murder countless innocent people targeting possible future terrorists with Minority Report style extra-judicial killings and Zevico wants to attack/invade a friendly nation because some Americans got killed there and nothing seems to have been done about the culprits yet.

You guys are seriously ****ed in the head...

You say that as if you think there is something unusual about invading friendly countries and killing people.

[Zevico]

I never called for an invasion.

[Egbert]

I never called for an invasion.

Welcome to Poly OT.

It doesn't matter what you did, or didn't say. There is the freedom to respond to things you didn't say, as if you had said them. You should know that.

[Dr Strangelove]

Today Egypt is hanging by a thread. The Muslim Brotherhood, who won last year's elections have a President who's been caught attempting to seize more power than he's entitled to and he's being challenged by more liberal elements in Egyptian society. Yes, by all means let's interfere in Egypt's growth process and set them back another decade.

[DinoDoc]

..intelligence agencies don't tend to wander around publicly releasing details of ongoing intelligence operations to the general public, because that would be pretty ****ing stupid of course.

This Admin leaks like a sieve if it makes the President look good. Witness the Stuxnet leak Zero Dark Thirty and the very fact you know about the drone program.

There we have it, a 'client state'. Put down the cold war manuals and the Tom Clancy books for ****s sake, that America died a decade or more ago.

You mentioned influence in an earlier post. What good is preserving influence (giving a state money and arms) if you don't use it?

[kentonio]

This Admin leaks like a sieve if it makes the President look good. Witness the Stuxnet leak Zero Dark Thirty and the very fact you know about the drone program.

Stuxnet matters why exactly? Same with Zero Dark Thirty, it's information about events leaking out after the fact, which has happened about exciting cool **** for basically ever. This stuff propagates more now not because this administration is particularly 'leaky' but because the internet age continues to make hiding things a lot harder.

As for drones, how exactly would you expect to keep it a secret that America is bombing the crap out of targets in neutral/friendly countries? You think no-one was going to notice?

You mentioned influence in an earlier post. What good is preserving influence (giving a state money and arms) if you don't use it?

I'm all for using influence, but all that 'client state' stuff is so overwhelmingly arrogant and stupid as to defy belief. Considering the massive destruction of pro-American sentiment under Bush, you'd think that kind of language would be safely locked back away in the cupboard.

[DinoDoc]

Stuxnet matters why exactly?

It along with the bin Laden leak and Obama's Drone Kill List were classified programs leaked by the White House in order to make the Administration look good.

I'm all for using influence

Then why the earlier histrionics when people make noises about using those levers of power in order to get a state to do what they want?

[kentonio]

It along with the bin Laden leak and Obama's Drone Kill List were classified programs leaked by the White House in order to make the Administration look good.

Oh gosh, that's never happened before in every administration in history..

Then why the earlier histrionics when people make noises about using those levers of power in order to get a state to do what they want?

Because there's a huge difference between using influence carefully and diplomatically to further your nations goals, and throwing around terms like 'client state', insulting countries that are basically friendly, and acting like a global bully who can get everything they want by threatening everyone else. That cold war mentality is fundamentally self-defeating, and just leads to everyone hating you. You might not care now, but no-one stays on top forever and at some point those kinds of chickens always come home to roost.

[Sava]

It's fun to watch DD repeat the whiny GOP talking points.