llinois becomes the fourth and most populous U.S. state to issue driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

[regexcellent]

I don't give a **** about amnesty, I just want us to stop forbidding people from crossing the ****ing border in the first place.

[MichaeltheGreat]

b) It certainly seems to be the case that they are single issue voters as it certainly wasn't the economy that tipped the scales given the Hispanic unemployment rate during the 1st term.

Perhaps the problem lies in your assumption that "they" or anyone should automatically buy in to the GOPs economic vision. Just because you can't make the sale doesn't mean the buyer wasn't in the market.

[MichaeltheGreat]

You have about 30 years worth of data to use. You show me when amnesty with no enforcement has done anything other than increase the problem.

Show me when there's been amnesty with no enforcement. From 2010 to early 2012, I practically commuted from San Diego to Phoenix, and along I8 I there were two permanent checkpoints in each direction, plus active Border Patrol patrols, occasional temporary checkpoints, etc. I spend easily 500 hours up and down that stretch of road, and saw several dozen stops by Border Patrol on and off the freeway, plus secondary inspections/detentions at the checkpoints. And that's one stretch of road only, not real close to the border for most of the run.

I've also worked on and surveyed sites closer to the border, and seen active BP surveillance and enforcement on a regular basis.

So again, show me "no enforcement." Maybe the GOP's real problem is spending so much time in an alternate universe that when they join the real universe on certain issues, nobody can take them seriously?

[DinoDoc]

Show me when there's been amnesty with no enforcement. From 2010 to early 2012, I practically commuted from San Diego to Phoenix, and along I8 I there were two permanent checkpoints in each direction, plus active Border Patrol patrols, occasional temporary checkpoints, etc. I spend easily 500 hours up and down that stretch of road, and saw several dozen stops by Border Patrol on and off the freeway, plus secondary inspections/detentions at the checkpoints. And that's one stretch of road only, not real close to the border for most of the run.

Anecdotes don't equal evidence. Unless of course you'd care to address the experiences of Robert Krentz with regard to how much control the US has over its border.

So again, show me "no enforcement." Maybe the GOP's real problem is spending so much time in an alternate universe that when they join the real universe on certain issues, nobody can take them seriously?

According to the GAO, of the nearly 2,000 miles separating the U.S. and Mexico, only 873 are under the "operational control" of the Border Patrol.

[Ben Kenobi]

hasn't been dramatically increased since Obama took office

Hrm? There were plenty of checkpoints in Texas back in 2005, in the era of Bush. Two from El Paso -> Fort Stockton.

[Ben Kenobi]

"Hey, we're still the party for rich white people, but we let your cousin become legal so we didn't get in any hot water over hiring her to be our housekeeper. Vote for us."

Checks bank account. Nope. Still not rich.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Eyewitness accounts of indendently observable events aren't anecdotes.

And you get the Ben "shift the argument once it's apparent that my prior claim was pulled out my ass award" of the day. You go from a patently laughable claim of "no enforcement" to "how much control" citing one rancher that was killed in a remote area nearly three years ago?


As for the 873 miles of operational control, how much of the rest is passable? Border patrol prioritizes according to risk of illegal activity. Yeah, there are places with no water and no road within 50 miles where you can cross the border, if you make it that far, so you can die in the sun on this side. Smuggling operations are channelized.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Checks bank account. Nope. Still not rich.

If you think the GOP is for you, you've got another guess coming. They'll take your vote or your contribution, but they don't make policy for you.

[Ben Kenobi]

As does every other justice to ever sit on that bench. Are you familiar with Frankfurter's quote on the subject? Her desires are simply less pigeon-holeable than say, Scalia's or Douglas's.

Right. Which is why there's such a thing as a constructionist.

State residence is a primarily a de facto matter and secondarily de jure. A state's civil process, for example, does not lose personal jurisdiction over an illegal alien because (in the Benoverse) that alien "is not a resident." State residence is essentially nothing more than "in what location do you primarily live?" It does not grant or connote any particular legal status.

Not here in Texas.

As noted above, state residency is a different thing from federal residency (is a different thing from immigration and naturalization. e.g. there are non-immigrant visa classes which convey a right to reside during the term of the visa and any renewals, but which do not provide any path to immigrant visa status. The L1 and H1B are examples, as are the dependent visas for those classes and the K1)

Erm, yes, they provide a path to meet the residency requirements for a green card. You can file for one provided you've been down here long enough.

Which is what the good folks in Illinois have decided. They'd rather deal with thousands of drivers and enforce training and insurance than sweat some phantom of "evil spic voter fraud."

Which is why Texas is required to honor Illinois driver's licenses? It works both ways, MtG. If Illinois doesn't feel obliged to 'obey the law', then Texas isn't obliged to respect Illinois drivers, since their driver's license is no longer sufficient proof of legal presence.

You're talking in circles. Then again, you are Ben. That rhymes. "Naturalization" is not even at issue - naturalization is the process of acquiring CITIZENSHIP.

Which requires one to first meet residency requirements.

Since driver's licenses merely convey authorization to operate a motor vehicle, they do not, by definition, relate to federal immigration law.

Actually, they do because they confirm legal presence in America.

Not really. States also have non-driver ID cards. Identity does not equal or imply status.

That's a terrible argument. Arguing that because the state provides A and B, doesn't mean that A isn't used as an identity document.

For the legal authority to operate a motor vehicle in the specific class. Anything else is up to the Texicans, so long as they have a legitimate public policy interest (e.g. they can't hinder travelers in interstate commerce without a valid competing policy interest)

Which is what Illinois is abusing, and what I've been saying all along. Texas now has an interest to screen for Illinois drivers in state.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling! Issuing driver's licenses means everybody can move here and get welfare and screw white women.

Laws are laws, MtG. Laws that aren't enforced aren't laws at all. If that's what you want, it would be nice if you were honest about it...

Read the news more. Remember the paid registration clown in NV who registered Mickey Mouse, Tony Romo and others? He was charged with a felony, no idea and I frankly don't give a **** about what happened next.

So it's actually not enforced. I rest my case.

Because Texas has a long history of not liking brown people, and Texas is a GOP stronghold, with the same fetish about the Evil Brown Hordes(tm) as the rest of the GOP.

The law is exactly the same for me. If that were true, I should be able to bypass the law because I'm white.

It's like putting up bars on your windows when a spic moves into the neighborhood. Texas is jerking itself off on what it deems to be a feel good measure chasing a phantom. The GOP was able to document less than 100 clear cases of vote fraud nationwide in ten years. That encompasses how many hundreds of millions of voters? They were convinced they were going to blow the lid off a big scandal and prove how Dems were conspiring with the Evil Brown Hordes(tm) to disencfranchise Real Amurkin (e.g. white) voters. They couldn't dig up squat.

Right, because absence of evidence = evidence of absence. Wow, I'm thrilled with your argumentation style here. Anyone who believes in enforcement of federal immigration laws is a racist. Phenomenal, MtG.

That's the nice thing about quasi-sovereignty. Texas doesn't make policy for the rest of us.

But apparently, Illinois does. States are either sovereign or they are not. Interstate commerce regulations indicate that the federal laws prevail. Can't have it both ways MtG.

[Ben Kenobi]

If you think the GOP is for you, you've got another guess coming. They'll take your vote or your contribution, but they don't make policy for you.

Right. The other party is the one saying that I should be forced to pay for contraception that I do not want or need. Why should I be paying for wealthy people's contraception? I thought the Democrats were supposed to be the party helping, not hindering poor folks.

[DinoDoc]

And you get the Ben "shift the argument once it's apparent that my prior claim was pulled out my ass award" of the day. You go from a patently laughable claim of "no enforcement" to "how much control" citing one rancher that was killed in a remote area nearly three years ago?

My arguement has always been centered around border control which doesn't exist in any significant form and employer checks which also don't exist in any meaningful form. We wouldn't have gone from a population of 3 million illegals to one which is on the low end 11 million if the government was doing effective enforcement.

Re one rancher in a remote area complaint: Kidnapping Capital of the U.S.A.

[regexcellent]

Hey DD, why is border control an issue? Why shouldn't we just let them all in, and open the floodgates?

[MRT144]

Hey DD, why is border control an issue? Why shouldn't we just let them all in, and open the floodgates?

CAUSE THEYRE ILLEGAL, GOSH!

[Dinner]

I don't give a **** about amnesty, I just want us to stop forbidding people from crossing the ****ing border in the first place.

The quota system is pretty absurd and the lack of legal ways to immigrate are why there are so many illegals.

[DinoDoc]

Hey DD, why is border control an issue? Why shouldn't we just let them all in, and open the floodgates?

We have a de facto open borders policy now. Most people don't seem to happy with its results.