New York paper posts names and addresses of gun owners

[DaShi]

It's interesting that some believe that the right to bear arms trumps the right to free speech.

[Dauphin]

Itz simplez:
Premise
The man with the gun is able and free to say what he wants.
Conclusion
If everyone has a gun, everyone is free to say what they want.

[DaShi]

Unless you say someone shouldn't have a gun.

[Dauphin]

Feel free to say that, they can respond like this:



Of course, you can take Charlton's gun. He's got cold dead hands.

[DaShi]

That actually does not address the point I was making.

[Dauphin]

Everyone should have a gun. Saying you shouldn't is just crazy talk. Are you crazy, is that your problem?

[Asher]

Another one. In Aurora again. Four dead.

http://gawker.com/5973375/gunman-in-aurora-colo-has-multiple-hostages-according-to-police

So many heroes with guns out there.

[BlackCat]

Another gun map can be found here - 489 gun kilings since Newtown

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I think only Jefferson really hated standing armies, actually.

True for the most part. (I say for the most part because Jefferson had a disturbing habit of saying one thing pre-presidential term and then doing a 180 during his presidency. Case in point it was Jefferson who ended up founding the US Military Academy at West Point during his office. Additionally Jeffersons faction of followers including Madison shared the same views on this issue so it really wasn't just Jefferson.) To state "founders were totally against standing armies" is bunk as it was a contended issue between the various constitutional signatories, and chiefly advocated by Hamilton. Now unless one wants to state that Hamilton was not a founding father and all his essays and work to promote the constitution via his Federalist papers contributions were nothing, the statement is flatly wrong. To say totally means consensus. That certainly was not the case. Further, while a majority of signatories likely supported the notion of "no standing army policy" there was significant concern about European, Canadien and Indian threats that a standing army was a point worth considering. These concerns were significant enough to ensure the funding of a US navy (i.e John Adams "wooden walls" as a first line of defense to prevent foreign meddling), and enough to contemplate a standing army as well.

Realizing it was Kentonio you can be assured it is typical half baked hyperbole, as such you can expect it to be wrong but not with the rock solid blessed assurance of innaccuracy as say an Oerdin comment.

[MichaeltheGreat]

More information here

That's because New York is ****ing stupid. DMV records, county assessor's records, credit reports, all that stuff is readily available online. In California, many if not most agencies provide proxy addresses to shelter residence addresses of DAs, parole and adult probation officers, judges, undercover cops, etc.

The newspaper's publication isn't the problem - the problem is that the actual residence address was a available in public records in the first place.

[DinoDoc]

The newspaper's publication isn't the problem

From the linked article:
"When I saw the list, I had an immediate flood of emotions that I cannot even describe to you," said Swift. "I originally obtained a gun permit because I had previously been married to a man who attempted to strangle me . . . The first emotion I felt was, 'Oh my gosh, he can find me.'"

FTR: I don't think the newspaper violated any laws as far as I'm aware. I just think they ventured far outside the bounds of journalistic responsibility and ethics. I also find the defenses of the paper's conduct to be galling.

[MichaeltheGreat]

From the linked article:
"When I saw the list, I had an immediate flood of emotions that I cannot even describe to you," said Swift. "I originally obtained a gun permit because I had previously been married to a man who attempted to strangle me . . . The first emotion I felt was, 'Oh my gosh, he can find me.'"

FTR: I don't think the newspaper violated any laws as far as I'm aware. I just think they ventured far outside the bounds of journalistic responsibility and ethics. I also find the defenses of the paper's conduct to be galling.

So you have a quote by someone who is clueless about lack of privacy? Presumably the guy who tried to strangle her knew her middle initial and birth date, if not more. From that, it's easy to plunk down a few bucks and get address information online. The newspaper's publication is only exposing data already available by other means.

Have you ever worked under an NDA? Every NDA I've ever seen provides a disclosure exception for infomation "already in the public domain." If this woman has a credit card to her name, or a car loan, or a mortgage, or an employer, or she owns a business in her own name, then her address is already readily available.

Edit - I'm not "defending" the newspaper's conduct per se. I'm pointing out that it's really pretty insignificant (or it would be legally actionable under tort theories of publication of private facts), in that they're not accessing and publishing information that wasn't already available to anyone who did a little digging. People jumping up and down about what a horrible thing the newspaper did are missing the boat - the real concern should be about the easy availability of information for anyone willing to pay a few bucks.

[DaShi]

Or that those sharing such public information now need to fear for their lives as if they had drawn and published a picture of the Prophet.

[regexcellent]

That's because New York is ****ing stupid.

QFT!

[DinoDoc]

The newspaper's publication isn't the problem

This is amusing:

Rockland County Clerk Claims “Gun Maps” Outdated, Inaccurate

New York's Journal News has hired armed security guards after receiving a barrage of criticism over its recent decision to publish interactive maps with the names and addresses of licensed gun owners.

What's more, according to the Rockland County Times, a relentless critic of the Journal since the maps were published, the information used to build the maps in the first place may be "grossly inaccurate."

Paul Piperato, the Rockland County Clerk, said at a recent press conference that about "25% of the addresses" provided by the County Clerk's office were incorrect.

When persons change their address or pass away it is supposed to be reported to the County Clerk's office, but the county has no means to vigorously enforce this regulation. Thus pistol permit and other permit registries are not reliably accurate as a source of addresses in Rockland.

Back in 2006, the Journal News ran a similar story, but Piperato convinced them to publish only names and towns of the permit holders, leaving addresses out of it. The Journal News has yet to comment on the accuracy of the maps, although it has defended the decision to publish them.

http://gawker.com/5973423/rockland-c...ted-inaccurate