Pointless referendum on Scottish independance set for 2014

[kentonio]

Scottish independence: Cameron and Salmond strike referendum deal

A deal setting out terms for a Scottish independence referendum has been signed by Prime Minister David Cameron and First Minister Alex Salmond.

The agreement, struck in Edinburgh, has paved the way for a vote in autumn 2014, with a single Yes/No question on Scotland leaving the UK.

It will also allow 16 and 17-year-olds to take part in the ballot.

The SNP secured a mandate to hold the referendum after its landslide Scottish election win last year.

The UK government, which has responsibility over constitutional issues, will grant limited powers to the Scottish Parliament to hold a legal referendum, under a mechanism called Section 30.

The deal will also commit both governments to working together constructively in the best interests of the people of Scotland, whatever the outcome of the referendum.

Mr Salmond said the agreement would mean a referendum "made in Scotland", while the prime minister said keeping the United Kingdom together was his number one priority.

The deal will provide for:

A statutory order to be legislated at Westminster, granting Holyrood powers to hold a single-question independence referendum by the end of 2014 and covering other issues like campaign broadcasts.

A "memorandum of agreement" to be signed by political leaders confirming the details of the referendum will be settled at Holyrood.

A significant role for the Electoral Commission watchdog in advising on the wording of the question, the running of the referendum and areas including campaign finance.

A possible second question on greater powers has been dropped.

Speaking after the deal was signed at the headquarters of the Scottish government, St Andrew's House, the prime minister told BBC News: "This is the right decision for Scotland.
Real arguments

But it's also right for the United Kingdom that there is going to be one, simple, straightforward question about whether Scotland wants to stay in the United Kingdom or separate itself from the United Kingdom, and that referendum has to be held before the end of 2014.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-19942638

Devo Max is obviously off the table as the rest of us would have to agree to it (not going to happen), and as only about 35% of Scots actually want independance it's going to turn into a pointless waste of money.

Most discussion boards on this seem to be currently full of Scots being pissed off that the English don't care if they leave or not.

[regexcellent]

Scotland only has like what, five million people? And what does it stand to gain from leaving? Governance by the SNP?

[Hauldren Collider]

They'll even get to join the Euro! Exciting!

[regexcellent]

Yes, they can board a sinking ship. Maybe they think they can be part of the damage control party.

[C0ckney]

it's not pointless. it's an opportunity for the people of scotland to decide in a democratic way whether they want to remain part of the united kingdom or not.

for some reason i always thought you were scottish ken, is that not the case?

[regexcellent]

Sure, they can decide whether to leave. But what baffles me is why they would want to. Someone please enlighten me.

[C0ckney]

well the party in power in scotland (the SNP) has a long history of campaigning for independence and obviously feel the time is right to put that to the people in a direct question. the arguments for scottish independence basically boil down the feeling that the westminster government doesn't really represent them and that they could manage their affairs better as an independent country.

[Hauldren Collider]

Which seems thoroughly ridiculous, given how prosperous the UK is.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Though not recently (albeit that is worldwide) - hence why they are trying to move so quickly now before any possible economic recovery.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

They should leave, and there is one clear case - London. There is too much money flowing into it from all parts of UK (it is 1/3rd of UK GDP), and the other parts are worse off, Scots should leave if they have half braincell left. To me it is a clear case, there are very few countries in the world (any others? perhaps Mexico? ) where the rest of the country suffers lack of jobs and general development due to one supercenter. Scots are also on the receiving end of it just as the rest of UK, and to me that is a clear choice, also good that they struck the deal, it's up to them to go and do it finally.

For some extra perspective, Irish split from UK almost a hundred years ago, they made Ireland a lot better place to live (obviously ) , and despite of the banking debacle are still a lot better off than the average Brit, their GDP per capita is still about quarter higher than UK one, even though they needed a lot of time to get into gear so to speak, but today they have the benefits of english language without drawbacks of third countries GDP going to London, and being a pheriphery noone cares about. Not to mention that Scots should benefit from North Sea oil, where a good chunk would go to them and whatever is left of that revenue it would go to their coffers and their 5 million, while not to the rest of the UK.

Leaving is basically only economic upside with very little downside, as all the trade will stay, the English will not close the borders after all if Scots leave the union.

Also besides the economics - they should leave the Westminister behind and be mad only at their own politicians for a change

Political regionalization is also good in general .

[Hauldren Collider]

They are also going to have to pay for their own army and navy, which isn't going to be fun. And would they still be part of NATO?

[C0ckney]

the financial position would be about the same. scotland takes out around what it puts in. there's a difference of about 0.1% either side, depending on which figures you use. of course as the north sea oil starts to run out, that may well change.

[giblets]

Are they doing this so they can have all the oil money to themselves while offloading most of their debts on the English?

[Zoetstofzoetje]

it will be good mainly for the Scottish politicians, who get a bigger paycheck for a bigger title.

[kentonio]

it's not pointless. it's an opportunity for the people of scotland to decide in a democratic way whether they want to remain part of the united kingdom or not.

It's pointless because it won't pass. You'd think during an economic crisis we might have better things to spend the inevitable millions on.

for some reason i always thought you were scottish ken, is that not the case?

No, I'm from England.

They should leave, and there is one clear case - London. There is too much money flowing into it from all parts of UK (it is 1/3rd of UK GDP), and the other parts are worse off, Scots should leave if they have half braincell left. To me it is a clear case, there are very few countries in the world (any others? perhaps Mexico? ) where the rest of the country suffers lack of jobs and general development due to one supercenter. Scots are also on the receiving end of it just as the rest of UK, and to me that is a clear choice, also good that they struck the deal, it's up to them to go and do it finally.

London and the South East bring in a vast proportion of the nations wealth. The rest of us are not exactly funding them.

Not to mention that Scots should benefit from North Sea oil, where a good chunk would go to them and whatever is left of that revenue it would go to their coffers and their 5 million, while not to the rest of the UK.

The Scots have been benefiting from that oil since it was first drilled, along with the rest of the UK. Funny how before the oil Scotland was happy to be a proud part of the union, but since it's discovery the independance movement has really taken hold. Wonder what might happen when the oil runs out, oil that incidentally Shetland and the Orkneys might have a bit of a claim on if they also decide to express their self determination.

Leaving is basically only economic upside with very little downside, as all the trade will stay

Sorry but that's not true. The economic upsides are based on wildly optimistic estimates. Huge questions continue to be unanswered including how much of the UK's national debt they would inherit, what currency they would use, what the effect on business would be, etc etc. To claim it's all just economically sound ignores the reality.

the English will not close the borders after all if Scots leave the union.

Says who?

Also besides the economics - they should leave the Westminister behind and be mad only at their own politicians for a change

Well that would be one upside.