Romney wins presidential debate

[regexcellent]

I made two points about it:

1. I think it's preferable to the alternative at the time.
2. He was our ally, and you don't abandon allies lightly because it makes other allies nervous.

I never said that I liked Mubarak.

And when I say the Nazis were civilized, I'm referring to a certain level of technology and development. Not prim and proper behavior or something.

[kentonio]

I made two points about it:

1. I think it's preferable to the alternative at the time.
2. He was our ally, and you don't abandon allies lightly because it makes other allies nervous.

Ah so it sends a better message to keep supporting a brutal dictatorship than it would to turn away from that brutal dictatorship, because you never know if like the UK or France might start questioning America's loyalty? Gotcha.

And when I say the Nazis were civilized, I'm referring to a certain level of technology and development. Not prim and proper behavior or something.

Was anyone talking about pre-industial dictatorships prior to this, or were you just throwing that out there?

[regexcellent]

Ah so it sends a better message to keep supporting a brutal dictatorship than it would to turn away from that brutal dictatorship, because you never know if like the UK or France might start questioning America's loyalty? Gotcha.

Many very important allies of ours happen to be dictatorships. If you don't make friends with dictatorships in the Middle East, you won't have very many at all; in fact, you'll have only one, and that's Israel. Someone out there is going to say Turkey and that's a whole other can of worms which I don't feel like getting into right now, but let's leave it at Turkey isn't actually in the middle east. Even if it were that would give you two. Yippee.

I'm not worried about Western European allies, although historically Western Europe hasn't been all that reliable for us. The countries of Western Europe aren't all that significant on the world stage these days; they mostly just grandstand with declarations about what a bad boy this or that country has been, and then go back to wallowing in debt and taxes and massive public expenses. Nobody takes euros seriously because they almost never back their words up with anything of substance, militarily or economically.

Was anyone talking about pre-industial dictatorships prior to this, or were you just throwing that out there?

It came from gribbler's assertion that I think Muslims are uncivilized. Which is ridiculous, and I don't. Anyway, I think we can move on from that because it's not really relevant.

[kentonio]

Many very important allies of ours happen to be dictatorships.

You'll be able to name some of these important allies then of course?

I'm not worried about Western European allies, although historically Western Europe hasn't been all that reliable for us.

Your Western European allies have been solid friends to America for half a damn century.

The countries of Western Europe aren't all that significant on the world stage these days; they mostly just grandstand with declarations about what a bad boy this or that country has been, and then go back to wallowing in debt and taxes and massive public expenses.

You don't think the second biggest defence spenders in the world, are that significant, compared to 'allies' like Mubarraks Egypt?

Nobody takes euros seriously because they almost never back their words up with anything of substance, militarily or economically.

That is close to being the most retarded thing you've ever said. Being you of course, that is up against some serious competition however, and I'd hate to pick the wrong winner.

It came from gribbler's assertion that I think Muslims are uncivilized. Which is ridiculous, and I don't. Anyway, I think we can move on from that because it's not really relevant.

You being a bigot as well as supporting oppressive dictatorships? Nah, you're right, we'll stick with the pro-dictator angle for the moment.

[regexcellent]

You'll be able to name some of these important allies then of course?

Saudi Arabia is the elephant in the room.

Your Western European allies have been solid friends to America for half a damn century.

Absolutely, but have they done much for us since the end of the cold war? Not really. We've gotten some help with Iraq and Afghanistan, and with Desert Storm back in the early nineties. Except for the British the number of troops hasn't been of much significance. I don't mean to downplay the British contribution at all here; in Desert Storm, and in Iraq and Afghanistan since 9/11, British support has been substantial. In terms of economic sanctions and stuff, the British are also usually the first on board among Western Europe.

You don't think the second biggest defence spenders in the world, are that significant, compared to 'allies' like Mubarraks Egypt?

Europeans don't do anything with that spending except have their men put on blue helmets and be ineffectual, for the most part.

[kentonio]

Saudi Arabia is the elephant in the room.

Ah so the home of Al Queda and the most fundementalist form of Islam, and the home of the guys who caused 9/11 are more important allies than the Western European nations. Gotcha.

Absolutely, but have they done much for us since the end of the cold war?

Seriously?

Europeans don't do anything with that spending except have their men put on blue helmets and be ineffectual, for the most part.

You mean we have strong militaries but don't generally go around fighting wildly expensive wars that kill thousands of our citizens, hundreds of thousands of civilians and destabalize huge areas of the planet? Ok, you got us.

[Wezil]

Ah so the home of...

You were just waiting for that weren't you?

[SlowwHand]

This was said about Fez/Giancarlo once. Can we just ignore the fact that regexcellent is on our side?

[regexcellent]

Ah so the home of Al Queda and the most fundementalist form of Islam, and the home of the guys who caused 9/11 are more important allies than the Western European nations. Gotcha.

The government of Saudi Arabia is reasonably pro-American and it would be a Very Bad Thing if that ceased to be the case. Yes their people hate us but their government is, despite not being very level-headed, more level-headed than the populace it seems.

Seriously?

Other than your own country we don't really get much mileage out of our Western European alliances; they're mostly just there. And we're not in any real danger of losing those alliances over our foreign policy.

You mean we have strong militaries but don't generally go around fighting wildly expensive wars that kill thousands of our citizens, hundreds of thousands of civilians and destabalize huge areas of the planet? Ok, you got us.

Last I checked Britain is fighting the same wars we are. The interesting thing is how Europeans seem way more interested in supporting our interests* than their own using military force. UN peacekeepers are also a popular destination but they don't really do much.

*generally to a token degree; I suspect desire to maintain some level of military combat experience is a factor

[SlowwHand]

U.N. sucks buzzard dick.

[Kidlicious]

The government of Saudi Arabia is reasonably pro-American and it would be a Very Bad Thing if that ceased to be the case. Yes their people hate us but their government is, despite not being very level-headed, more level-headed than the populace it seems.

They are smart enough to keep the money rolling in.

[Hauldren Collider]

Yes, he did. No, it won't.

I would like to call Drake out on this. Given that this has changed Romney's campaign from appearing to the media as the inevitable loser to a fairly even stack against Obama, do you still think it changes nothing?

[DaShi]

Go ahead and provide the argument to the contrary then.

[DinoDoc]

I would like to call Drake out on this. Given that this has changed Romney's campaign from appearing to the media as the inevitable loser to a fairly even stack against Obama, do you still think it changes nothing?

He has to win another (preferably the next one) if he wants to cement the narrative. Otherwise, Tupac is correct and it will merely be a very welcome blip.

[giblets]

I would like to call Drake out on this. Given that this has changed Romney's campaign from appearing to the media as the inevitable loser to a fairly even stack against Obama, do you still think it changes nothing?

He's still at a considerable disadvantage, and with two more debates to go.